Paula White’s ‘on the ropes’ interview

Posted: October 18, 2007 in False Doctrine, False Teachers, The Gospel
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Below is a very interesting interview that a guy called Paul Edwards had with controversial prosperity teacher Paula White. You can hear the interview for yourself at the end:

Televangelist Paula White was a recent guest on my radio program in Detroit. She and her husband of 18 years, Randy White, announced in August that they would be divorcing and yet continuing their respective ministries: Randy as Senior Pastor of Church Without Walls in Tampa, Florida and Paula as an itinerant evangelist and “Life Coach.”

For most of the 30 minutes we talked I challenged her on her theology, as revealed in her latest book “You’re All That!,” as well as her divorce. I asked her to justify statements made by members of her church that her divorce would have no impact whatsoever on its ministry. How is that possible, I asked? How is it possible that two high profile ministers could conclude that their own relationship was so damaged that divorce was the only solution, and yet believe themselves spiritually fit to continue their ministries? She had no concrete answers, and so she concluded our 30 minute conversation this way:

“And while we’re talking about painful, difficult situations, with all due respect, I understand “let’s get the elephant out of the room,” we’ve taken 30 minutes on divorce. But I don’t understand why not an interviewer or a believer as yourself has not asked me how my daughter, who has a death sentence, with third and fourth stage cancer, how she’s doing now.”

I sat stunned for a moment; stunned because I didn’t know, but more shocked that she would use a family tragedy to make me look like a terrible person simply because I challenged her theology and lifestyle.

What pray tell, does her daughter’s illness have to do with answering questions about her divorce and her humanistic theology? Is Paula White above criticism because she has a terminally ill daughter?

The larger question is: if her daughter’s illness is so serious as to warrant her not having to answer questions about her very public divorce and her very abberant theology, why is Paula White on an eight city book tour while her daughter lay dying? During our conversation she boarded a plane for Detroit for a book signing the next day.

The fact is, “her” daughter is not her daughter at all. “Her” daughter is actually her estranged husband Randy’s daughter from a previous marriage. “Her” daughter is an adult, not a child. She led me and my audience to believe that she had a young child at home dying of cancer. Paula White played the sympathy card when it became apparent she had lost the sympathy of the audience on the issues she was asked to address.

Paula White is a well managed image worth millions of dollars. Behind that image is a real person, a wounded and broken human being, who lives in fear of being exposed. Paula White revealed how broken she is when she used her dying daughter as a desperate cover to protect at all costs her well managed image. She needs our prayers as much as her daughter.

Listen to the complete interview here.

Related Post:

Paula White’s Outrageous Heresies

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Comments
  1. Doug says:

    she’s a child of God, just like you or me. No one is perfect, give the girl a break.

  2. Alan Higgins says:

    I agree Doug that noone is perfect but that does not mean that we should not measure up peoples teachings (including mine) with scripture. The Bereans had to measure up what Paul said. Read Acts 17:11.

  3. Ann Neu says:

    All the millions got to Paula and Randy..Im sure thy are good hearted people and I know they LOVE The Lord God and Christ Jesus…A mess

  4. Joy says:

    This is my Pastor! I am a member of Without Walls, and you radio host guy, and a Pastor? I am confused, If you are a “Pastor”, then why are you focusing on all the junk and not on God. Don’t you know that God can and will work in any situation? Pastor Paula and Bishop Randy will stand in judgement for the decisions that they make, but we are not the judge. Have you ever told a lie? You are a lie if you say no, but I bet you have told your children not to! The point is OK they are getting a divorce, I hope it does not happen, I am praying. See the thing is that at WWIC, and the name is not Church Without Walls, it is Without Walls International Church, we learn to keep our eyes on Jesus, and man. This is why I don’t want to be an Evangelist because then you are under a microscope to be perfect when no one is but Jesus. The fact is that right is right if no one is doing it, and wrong is wrong if everyone is doing it. Pastor Paula taught me that! The word is the same, it is not the will of God for us to live in lack. Did you listen to Pastor Paula? She said that prosperity is not just money, but wholeness, the bible said that we are to live life, have life abundance, to the full till it overflows! I love my Pastors, get off there back, they are human but the Word is still the word, even if it comes from a donkey! And don’t cry for us at Without Walls, we just have good teaching and we know that they are human, you obviously don’t, we keep our eyes on Jesus, and not His messengers. Oh and as far as Kristen goes, you have no idea what their family has gone through!! Kristen is and adult and no matter how old you are still a child to your parents. I am glad that my step dad does not look at me the way you say, he is my dad, and you know even Jesus had a stepfather that loved Him! So what, Pastor Paula is her step mom, she is her mother, and she loves her. Kristen is fine right now by the grace of God after chemo, and brain surgery! God is awesome, and I will pray for you! God Bless you!!

    • John says:

      That comment is done in ignorance.

      While there is compassion and not putting people under the microscope, BTW we do righteously judge those in the “church”. If this is not so, than the Bible is compromising in different scripture. For example we know that the Bible tells us about those who claim to be of the faith but are not, to put them out from among us. And then you know how it talks about turning so and so to satan?

      Understand the balance in it. There is balance. If Paula murdered her kid, would you say then that “nobody is perfect” and just to let her continue with ministry like NOTHING happen!!?? I’m guessing NO…

      I’m not buying it. Going all into ministry while in a divorce like everything is OK. That’s just plain wrong. And I know because I have been there. My wife left me and we were apart for a year, everything was put on pause. I know the pain and all. For her to continue as usual is very odd and I will never see her the same for it. With my surrender to God, He restored our marriage. What’s her excuse? I’m not buying that nonsense.

      *** PUKES ***

      You yell out judgment, I say what about all those who look up to her and follow her teachings? Who will backslide over this? Don’t think that this doesn’t happen. It makes people stumble in the faith! There is no excuse for this. The divorce was mutual. If he left her, then that’s another story.

      I HAVE ALL THE RIGHT TO EXAMIN HER FRUIT. And it’s NOT judgment. Jesus said that if you shall judge, judge righteously.

      Even if the man cheated on her, she can even forgive him or want the marriage restored in Christ. I know, because I did. I know what it is like for God to call me like Hosea. I know what it is like for God to rebuke me to forgive a wife who first cheated on me, then abandoned me, and was out partying and having no sympathy for me, not to mention the mean things she would say as my hurt was ripped out. I was taught on what unconditional love actually is. What the heck is her excuse?

      I know there is hurt and pain with all of this (i’ve been there) but a true women of God would surrender it to Him instead of just walk away from the marriage. I know God didn’t call her to divorce.

      A big point of the talk host was that Christians are being deceived into thinking that “until death do us apart” doesn’t matter anymore. Hogwash on that don’t judge her crap!!!

      The public disserves some kind of explanation. Why? Not because the public is “nosey”, but because it involves and effects the publics faith and lives DEEPLY!!!

  5. Steve says:

    Without naming any pastors or televangelists, what we are seeing in the Church in the USA IMO are teachers who are trying to make “take up your cross daily and die to self and follow ME” tolerable. That message will never be popular. But in saying this, this message of the cross is the only way to the Kingdom. Jesus says we are “All That” when we are dead to self, Satan, the world. The idea of prosperity is in the Bible in 3rd John 2 in NT and many other places. The Kingdom of God is in the future and now according to Jesus because through death daily, counting yourself as dead with Christ, we experience resurrection life, as Jesus explained about Lazarus, “I Am the Resurrection & the Life! Keep our eyes on Jesus & repent America. It is about Jesus’ sacrifice for souls, Real Love for God & people. We are needy, poor in spirit, dependent on God; Laodecean churches repent while there’s time, myself included. The hidden things will be brought to light soon.

    • Eric says:

      Steve,

      Actually, what I think the problem is had nothing to do with making “take up your cross daily and die to self and follow ME” tolerable. It has everything to do with this passage being taught “take up your cross daily and die to self and follow ME (ie. the pastor/relevangelist, NOT Jesus)”

      A great many in the “American church” are teaching a “follow the pastor” gospel NOT the True Gospel.

  6. Prophetess says:

    This is the first time that I have ever heard Paula speak about her divorce and I am so very thankful that God prepared and used you as His vessel to deliver what the word truly means. Has I listen Paula was definately using God for her own benefits and I am so greatful to Pastors like you and my own Pastor who is a Prophet who have a true revelation of the word and not just looking at this book called the bible and not knowing at all or understanding what the black and white pages really mean

    As a Prophetess I can throw out alot of scriptures based on this conversation that you and Ms.Paula had but I want because God truly used you in a mighty way to chastise Paula, it is necessary. Amen

  7. candy calloway says:

    I believe Paula is the real deal. She is entitled to somewhat of a private life. What is she saying to the public that is wrong. Have you heard her, she is extremely powerful and I believe she is of God. She is all about telling the truth about Jesus. Give credit where it is due. She is full of love.

  8. slm07 says:

    Paula White is just like Juanita Bynum, an adulterer and a Jezebel. Anyone following after these people should beware.

    Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication…

  9. lou says:

    I am so sadden when people just allow people to live any kind of way and others blindly follow. You see Paul rebuked Peter and he was a man. if you love people, you keep them accountable. Jesus said you will know them by their fruit, not their gift. Gifts are irrevocable. When you study Christian history many were very gifted, but became arrogant.

  10. jerry says:

    I listened to the interview and was shocked when she suggested that one could be involved in a divorce without there being any problem with their relationship with Christ! The pastor(s) of a large church could defy scripture and feel they had no accountability to the church! The obvious fruit of some sin is clearly and nationally manifest, yet there is no confession of sin, acknowledgement of sin, nor is there recognition that the sin will not affect their work *leading* God’s people!

    It was clearly apparent that her only desire was to hawk her book. I also noticed that the *gifts* (something about places Jesus bled) one were to receive for a “donation” to their non-profit ministry were referred to as “the product.”

    I am not sure which is more offensive, the intentional and blatant profiteering from and theological abuse of the pulpit, of the stupididty and willful ignorance of so many millions who buy into it and support it.

    I have been preaching since 1995 and I am proud to say I preached at a church that FIRED ME because it felt I was not studying enough, thus not feeding them enough truth! Though I am ashamed and embarrassed by the event and that they were correct in their assessment, I am so proud that Bereans remain who hold their ministers accountable to the flock. I am also proud that congretgations remain that recognize that Biblical leadership consists of a plurality of local elders who *hire* someone to do the majority of the preaching and *fire* them if they pull the stunts the Whites have. Biblical leadership is local, plural, and male, not singular and not a “board” of elected people who have a financial stake in the “company.”

    In all my years of preaching, I was always accountable to the congregation as a whole, was paid whatever they decided, and never once counted the collection or handled the money in any way. I could never even sign a check or promise church funds for anything. That is the work of the elders (biblical references include pastor-teacher), the deacon, or the member who was given the responsiblity by the aforementioned elders. But the finances are an inappropriate arena for the man behind the pulpit.

  11. Alan Higgins says:

    Jerry, thankyou for your contribution and I agree with everything you have said especially your second to last paragraph and i think I will use it as part of a separate post as it shows your maturity and how they were right to fire you. If you carried on, you would have done a grave disservice to the flock and it would have had eternal consequences for some

    Continue to be a Berean

    Alan

  12. Julie says:

    Interesting story…Jesus told all those self righteous, Pharisee minded, sinners who were about to stone a prostitute for her promiscuity that if any of them were without sin then they could throw the first stone. THERE WAS ONE PERSON THERE WHO QUALIFIED TO THROW THE STONE AND IT WAS JESUS CHRIST. He was the only one who qualified that day and HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO QUALIFIES NOW! What did HE do? He offered FORGIVENESS. Whether she asked for it or not, he OFFERED it and He is offering it to ALL OF YOU who want to hide your own sins of prideful judgment by pointing your finger in this woman’s direction. I am not a Paula White fan or follower. I just speak it as it is. Nothing is more disgusting than some “Christian” who spends all their time condemning and probably hasn’t done the first thing to BUILD the body of Christ. You have been deceived into thinking you are doing some kind of good here by “getting together” and talking about another person sin. You have a plank in your OWN eye. You should look at people, teachings and lifestyles with a judging eye SO TO DECIDE WHETHER YOU WILL OR WILL NOT FOLLOW, and not so you can climb the soapbox and murder another person with your words! It is you who need to repent. Work on YOU! Leave other people to your prayers and the work of the Holy Spirit. You can’t change anyone else anyway.

    When Paul openly rebuke Peter, what was the rebuke? Take it into context folks. Read the Bible before you preach it! Paul condemned Peter because he would not eat with Gentiles even though Peter had already been told in a vision that the Gentiles were equally entitled to God’s grace and mercy. Peter was rebuked for acting like a PHARISEE! Peter was rebuked for JUDGING PEOPLE. I pray that you will see the self-destruction you have entered into.

    Believers in Christ need to learn how to rebuke and correct properly! Calling names and condemning those who aren’t living right is not the way of Christ. We are supposed to be forming into His image.

    It is one thing to recognize a lifestyle, which is not holy, and to choose to say, “it’s not holy and I won’t follow it”. That is fine. But to go all out of your way to call someone a jezebel or whore or any other name isn’t holy either! Guard your own heart and do not be deceived. You are not the judge of others, He is. Judge yourself so He will not have to.

    If you REALLY want to be more like Christ then follow his example and stop pointing your finger at everyone else that isn’t perfect. All you are really trying to do is take the focus away from your own sin.

    Minister J. Branstetter

  13. Eric Seel says:

    Paula white is a fruit tree barren in due season twice dead and pulled up by the roots. Our expression of Christ is not through the expression of the flesh or fleshly experiences. We experience the transformation of souls by working with the tools of the covenant of Christ for the regeneration of the soul and renewing of the mind.
    We do not store up to ourselves the moth and rust of this world. Instead we store up the imperishable knowledg of Christ. We do not focus on Gold or Silver, but we keep our minds on finishing the race to recieve the crown of life and the inheritance of the priesthood (the inheritance of Christ).

    This is the problem with the Chuch today. There is no true Government of Apostles and Prophets. The foundation of the churhc is laid by the Apostles and Prophets with Christ the “Chief Cornerstone”. Without the direction of true Apostles the Church will be built on the sand of false doctrine and everyone in the false religious system will be blown around by every wind of doctrine.

    Church leaders instead build by precept upon precept line upon line heer a little and there a little. By taking what they want from the Bible and building a framework void of the grace and truth of God. It is time to wake up as the Church is now about to experience the transition into the time of sorrows. Not the tribulation but the time of Sorrows as told by the Prophet Enoch. We are not going through the time when the Spiritual temple is to be rebuilt through the guidance of the Apostle’s.

    By this transition of the rebuilding of Spiritual temple man shall be able to worship God in Spirit and truth again just as the true christians did at the time of the first Apostles.

    “Blessed are those who labor at the Altar of Christ and build with the tools of righteousness as directed by the Apostles; for they shall express Christ through His Charity one to another and they shall be living tabernacles of Christ bearing forth fruit unto life and sharing the grace of God to those who have an ear to hear what the spirit of the Lord is saying to the Chuches who have lost their candlestick.”

    Prophet Eric Seel

  14. Eric Seel says:

    Sorry folks; We are going through the time of the rebuilding of the spiritual temple as directed by living Apostles. I have a zeal for truth and we must build with a unity that is not feigned in which we shall all be in one mind and one accord concerning the doctrine of Christ.

    We need Apostles.

  15. Alan Higgins says:

    Quick question, what exactly makes you a prophet?

  16. Eric Seel says:

    Allen;
    Questtion on what standard do you discern from on what a prophet is? Is it the standard of personal prophecy? Is the Standard of the false religious system? If man does not have the grace and truth of Jesus Christ laid in His heart through true Apostles then he has no Standerd to judge by. If one is void of the grace and truth of God, then he has not the preperation for His or her’s calling. Therefore they have no standard to judge by.

    Truth plus the Anointing (preperation for one’s calling) equals discernment. If you are so concerned then read the prophecies, and about the dreams and visions I have had on the website and discern through grace (communication, revelation, and illumination of the spirit of Christ).

    The time is now to make the crooked way straight and the high places low. Now is the time to abandone the false framework that takes the name Christ in vain.

    For those who take on the yoke of Christ through the leadership of Apostles and submit to the truth of God and mold with His spirit shall bear fruit unot life.

    But those who continue to join themselves to the false teachings of perverse spiritual leaders shall perish in a field void nourishment for the roots of their souls and bear fruit unto death.

  17. Alan Higgins says:

    To answer your question, the standard I stand on is the bible. I disagree with your statement “If man does not have the grace and truth of Jesus Christ laid in His heart through true Apostles then he has no Standerd to judge by” I do not need an apostle to show me grace and truth through Jesus Christ. All I need is the scriptues to study and understand for myself

  18. Mo Nasir says:

    Alan I understand your logic and what you are saying because these are the traditions that have been handed down to us from generation to generation. But the truth of the matter is that Apostles are necessary for they are the knowledge stewards of the new covenant. The bible you read is the written record but we have the living record in Christ Jesus. Let’s take a look at a couple of scriptures for clarification.

    John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

    When we read the scriptures we have to look at the audience that is being addressed. In this scripture Jesus is speaking expressly to the apostles.

    John 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

    Who is he speaking of sending? The apostles. The apostles office is sent forth by God for the establishment of His government. If you read the scriptures who were the ones doing the teaching, it was the apostles. They carry the measure of grace to unfold the mystery of Christ to us, while building the foundation of truth within the heart. This is why the apostle Paul called himself a wise master builder. But we have to careful how we build upon that foundation. Let’s look here at verse 20

    John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

    So now He is praying for the church. But in this scripture the Lord Jesus also gives a qualifier. Believers are those who believe on Him through their word, whose word (the apostles).

    For so long we have taken these scriptures out of context. Especially this one.

    Matt 3:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

    For so long I thought it was for us as the church to know the mysteries, but if we look at the audience who was He addressing. Once again He is speaking to the apostles.

    1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

    So here is confirmation penned by the apostle Paul. He was not speaking in a general sense of ministry, this particular verse of scripture again is confirming the office of the apostle. To say that we do not need apostles, would be saying that we do not need the grace of God, for each office of spiritual government carries a different measure of grace. The apostles are the ones who plant within the heart the truth of Jesus Christ. I know that this is hard for most to digest seeing that the church has been in darkness for about 2000 years. But as the office of the apostle is restored, along with the believers priesthood, the saints of God can get off of the journey filled with mountaintop and valley experiences and learn how to abide in Christ.

    “Blessed are those who worship God in Spirit with the tools of the covenant and in truth with the knowledge of Christ for they shall be filled with the fullness of Christ as the fruit of iniquity is purged from the soul and the fruit of faith is birthed within”

    Abiding steadfastly in the apostles doctrine,

    Mo Nasir

  19. Alan Higgins says:

    So correct me if I am wrong. Are you saying that the apostles word is the final authority on doctrine?

    If you are saying this, then why did the Bereans search the scriptures in Acts 17:11 to see if what Paul said was true. Why did they not just say, “well he’s an apostle so we dont have to check the scriptures for ourselves”?

  20. Steve Thompson says:

    A few years ago around 1997 just before I got Involved with the Mormon church I asked God Jesus Who are The True Prophets now days? and God Jesus said, The Bible Is My Prophet And Them That Believe My Words And Brings Peace To My People. at that time I thought the Mormons was just another false religion until until a Man that was A true Apostle and a Personal Teacher to Me yes He Knew thing No one else Knew about The Gospel but He bid the government created by people Godspeed then He read the book of Mormon and had Me believing I was a Mormon for a while, now go back God Jesus said The Bible Is My Prophet obvious this meant The king James version not other books.

    First Corinthians chapter 12 verse 28 God Jesus set Some (Not All as some false churches teach) In The Church first Apostles second Prophets and Governments are 7th on the list Bishops are Not Chosen by God Jesus It Is Their own Choice but They are not to be paid for Their Service In The Church and They must be Ordained by An Apostle Prophet.

    The Scriptures of The Holy Bible were Written by Apostles and Prophets as Directed by The Holy Ghost and The Holy Bible must be Interpreted by Apostle Prophets as Directed by The Holy Ghost so that there will be NO error In The Teaching of The Gospel, The Scriptures of The Holy Bible must also be applied with The Laws of Nature and history and common Sense how many times has The Gospel been twisted because of Someones misinterpretation?

    Sometimes what Is Not Taught Is more Important than what Is taught as an example If You heard of a Car dealer selling nice low priced cars on top of a mountain, so You buy a Car but what they did Not tell You the Car has No Brakes and You drive down the mountain get the Idea? A Preacher can Teach some truth but Is It what the People need? but when there are Apostle Prophets being Directed by The Holy Ghost the People get what They need.

    I remember when george w bush was running for president I was against him becoming president but the TBN Television preachers was trying to get him elected, Okay now I Am still researching on this so I Am Not saying It for a fact yet I used to do some Drag racing and modified My own Engines so I know something about engineering and as I keep saying on YouTube ask some Professional Drag racers Their life and career depends on Them knowing something about engineering but I have reason to believe that the 9/11 World Trade Centers were Not brought down by Jets but by thermite because of the huge center beams of the WTC and Jet fuel Is kerosene and without extra forced Oxygen kerosene can not burn hot enough to melt heavy steal beams I Am not going Into all the details You can learn more about It Google http://www.tulsatruth.org and see the 5th and 6th video. Now some People would say, “Our government would not do something as that! Learn history they would they are the same as the pharisees that had The Christ crucified they are not even a true government they are a grand deceiver and have deceive some People for over 230 years but this Is the type of stuff that happens when People do Not Search The Truth they just automatically believe some preacher who was Not Chosen by God Jesus or decide They do not need Them that was Chosen by God Jesus to Teach The Gospel and the Office of Apostle Prophet has Not been done away with as I have heard some of these television preachers say, What they are trying to do Is denounce The Authority of God Jesus so that Is all that You are doing Is believing In just another religion. We still Need Apostle Prophets.

  21. Alan Higgins says:

    If you read Acts 17:11, that alone tells you that we do not need to depend on apostles and prophets to tell us truth. The bereans checked out THEMSELVES if what the apostle Paul was saying was truth by comparing it to scripture and did not just accept what he said as truth. We are admonished to do the same and we have the Holy Spirit to help us do so

  22. Eric Seel says:

    Gee Alan did we ruffle some feathers.

    It seems that you want to hold on to your vain traditions like many who are deceived by the gainsayers. They searched the scriptures as Paul revealed the pattern to them. The pattern was withheld from them until the Apostle Paul revealed it to them.

    This is why we need Apostles. If Christ came back today he wold get a handful for His return. But He paid a very high price and He is coming for what He paid for. This is why in these last days Christ is restoring His Church through the Apostles and Prophets. “The foundation of the Church is founded on the Apostles and Prophets with Jesus Christ the Chief Cornerstone.”

    But to you Alan, Government, Truth and the Spirit has become an offense to your foundation. Sorry the foundation of the Church was not Built on the Foundation of Alan. Instead Jesus Christ the Chief Cornerstone has become an offense to you and a stumbling Block.

    Now; Let us take a look at Cornelius in the New testament. Cornelius was holy in all his ways. But he was still practising the covenant of Moses. The alms, Tithes, sacrifices etc. But because his heart full of faith God spoke to Cornelius that he needed the Apostle Peter to come and establish his heart in the foundation of the grace and truth of the covenant of Christ. God revealed to Peter that a man would come to him to ask him to come to the house of Cornelius so that he may establish them in the Covenant of Christ.

    Was Cornelius told by the Angel that, Oh, Its ok just keep praying and doing what your doing and everything will be alright. NO! He told Cornelius that he needed an Apostle to establish him in the faith.

    Hmmm. Remember, Doctrine cannot be determined by private interpretation of scripture.

    The thing you should remember that with your private interpretation you confirm yourself to having the pattern and blueprints of the Covenant of Christ.
    But have you learned it so. Many claim to have the pattern but they do not agree. The Apostles were in one mind and in one accord concerning doctrine. “They all preched the same thing!”

    But the grace of God is absent from those who do not want to or accept the doctrine of Christ handed down by living apostles but intsead disign a Gospel out of the rythym of the Flesh and not the rythym of the Spirit and label it with the name of Christ. This taking the name of the Lord in vain because the framework you have labeled with the name of God is not of God and is in Vain. It won’t bring regeneration. But instead those who work with such doctrines bear fruit unto death and not unto life.

    The Apostle John calls these men Murderers because they withhold the Chrarity of Christ from there Brethren and others. Read 1st John.

    But those who build on the foundation of the Church as handed down by Apostles and Prophets with Jesus the Chief Cornerstone will experience the grace and truth of Chris in their souls and shall be clothed in the Virtues of Christ so that they may bear fruit unto life to share with their Brethren in the Feast of Charity.

    If you with to go on with your gospel Alan. Good luck.

    Prophet Eric Seel

  23. Eric Seel says:

    Oh, By the way, I am a Christian not a Mormon. I do not belong to a Cult that builds on the rythym of the flesh in self propigation according to their own self aspirations.

    We stricly believe in laboring at the altar of Christ for the regeneration of the soul and renewing of the mind.

    Let this be clear that God is now establishing His government through living Apostles who are directed by the Spirit of Christ and not Dead Apostles who are being directed by the inspirations of seducing spirits.

    Prophet Seel

  24. Alan Higgins says:

    So to ask the question again, Are you saying that the apostles or prophet’s word is the final authority on doctrine? So basically I should just listen to what you say and not question it???

  25. Erc Seel says:

    Remember what I said before. How can question something if you have no the pattern of God’s faith living in you through the grace and truth of God.

    Allyou want me to do is confirm your framework and I will not do so.

    If you do not have grace and truth you do not have the anointing for your priesthood or calling. Without these things you do not have discernment.

    Yes, you should accept what God is doing but not on the basis of your own intelect; but ont he basis of the grace of God leading you to the words of an Apostle but instead as of now you wish to discuss with foolish raamblings and lead by the understanding of this world and not by the understanding of the truth.

    God made these laws and He establishe government through Apostles and Prophets.

    If the interpretation of Scripture is of no private interpretation. And Doctrine mus be establishe through the Apostles?

    Let us look at man developing his own doctrine void of the grace and truth of God as handed down by His government. Hmm would that doctrine not be directed by his own vain aspirations and the motivation of seducting spirits, (doctrine of devils). This would mean that that person would be worshiping his own vain teachings and those would be judged according to his own philosophies void of the Grace of God. This in reality is a form of Idolatry.

    And Idolaters are not allowed in the Kingdom of God.

    You can not pin me in a corner.

    Prophet Seel

    “Those who follow the framework of Christ as laid down by the Apostles and Prophets shall have the knowledge of God to labor in the faith with the tools righteousness; And through their labor they shall bear forth fruit unto life. But those who resist the grace and truth of God commit sin and have become willfully blind to the wisdom of God and shall walk the pathway of darkness unto death.”

  26. Erc Seel says:

    Prophecy from the Apostle’s Office:

    “For indeed these are the last days, and My call goes forth to the ends of the earth, ‘Who shall hear my invitation to covenant and who shall respond to my Spirit of truth? For even now my vessels of mercy are proclaiming My name in righteousness, yet many with itching ears are turning away. Seek not your own pleasures, but seek My pleasure and I will reward you and write upon your heart the knowledge of Myself, the knowledge that makes rich the soul in My eternal treasures, for My virtues are finer than gold and bring no sorrow or loss, but build your soul and My House in the wealth of My divine nature and My divine power through grace. Build not a name for yourself, but build in the name of my Son by the covenant of My Son, and you shall not be found naked or ashamed, but you shall be found clothed in the virtues of His righteousness.’

    For as the word of the Lord goes forth, men’s hearts are being tried, imaginations violated and pride wounded, for there are many idols displayed as Christ. Yet when men’s idols are broken many say ‘this is the voice of evil, which comes not from God, for surely God is a confirmer of my passions.’ Yet know this: God is not evil that he should be a respecter of man’s person or man’s idols of imagination, but he is faithful to His Oath, and it is only by our submission to grace that we obtain the blessings of His Oath, which are through Jesus Christ. Resist not therefore, the vessels of the Oath of God, that bring truth, exhortation, prophesy, direction and all good things of holy wisdom to direct the heart to faith by the Law of Grace and Truth. Resist not the voice of the Spirit that calls you to faith through the covenant of Jesus Christ. Resist not the inspiration of grace that seeks to find entrance to your heart to humble your soul. For the proud who resist receive nothing, but they of a humble heart shall hear the Lord.

    Truly you shall see the hand of the Lord bring low the false shepherds and the mockers and the foolish who resist His holy apostles, for in this day the grace of God shall be poured out in power, to separate the profane from the holy, to restore the brokenhearted in justice and mercy. They who seek for gold and silver shall God mock and hold in derision, but they who seek for the pleasure of God shall be preserved in His peace and goodness. They who seek for the knowledge of self shall fall back and be ensnared, but they who seek for the knowledge of God through the covenant of Christ shall be made whole and filled with the fruits of salvation. Receive ye therefore the words of the apostles and prophets, and apply yourself with diligence to the truth, that your vessel may be strong in faith, strong in grace and strong in discernment, that you may not be swept away with the delusions coming upon the earth but may remain anchored in the knowledge, Oath and covenant of Jesus Christ.”

    In Him,

    Apostle JoAnne Cremer

    Founder, Apostles’ Center International School of Ministry

  27. Steve Thompson says:

    The Is Another Apostle Prophet Name Paul Borner In New Your that said He does not mind taking phone calls I can not sure but I think He called Me first He Is or was at Apostle14@aol.com I don’t know If AOL Is still around You can find His phone number on Dogpile Internet search In white pages. What Is was explaining about the Mormon Is The Apostle that was A Personal Teacher to Me gave the government created by people Godspeed saying He believes God Jesus Ordains corrupt governments then He read The Book of Mormon and became a Mormon, He lost His mind for giving the government created by people Godspeed then He became a Mormon that Is what God Jesus does to people that gives the government created by people God Jesus caused them to lose their mind especially If They are An Apostle that should know better than doing such a thing second Thessalnians 2:11 That Is also what happen to Doyle Davidson Who used to make some sense but now He preaches about another Mans Wife saying She Is a slut thats His Wife then He has the People to march around the church building while Singing and says that Is Worshiping God, Doyle Davidson He kept saying God raises up and tears down governments that God Jesus sets up corrupt governments to make People have Faith and We should respect the government created by people to give thanks for all men king and all that are In authority but Doyle Davidson would not read more where It says, “For It Is The Will of God that all Men come to The Knowledge of The Truth. It dose Not say for all that are In authority to remain In corruption. Get It Straight God Jesus Is Not the author of confusion and that Is how you make God Jesus angry by saying saying stuff as God Jesus Ordains corrupt government or says God Jesus sets up corrupt government to make People have Faith because Its a lie to say the least, that Is what I have been saying about these southern Baptist and other churches as them that they are Sheep murderers they beat up The Sheep then they tell The Sheep to respect the wolfs then they feed The Sheep to the wolfs then tell The Sheep It Is Your own fault that You got eat by the wolfs that wolf would not eat You If You were not doing something wrong.

  28. Alan Higgins says:

    Eric, you keep saying ‘Doctrine cannot be determined by private interpretation of scripture.’ and I agree but you seem to confuse this with a right biblical interpretation. If you look at some of my other posts under the heading of false teachers, that is where you will see many examples of ‘private interpretation of scripture’ where the scripture has been twisted to meet their own needs. That is not what i am talking about. But lets just keep to my text about Acts 17:11. Why did the Bereans check out THEMSELVES if what the apostle Paul was saying was truth by comparing it to scripture and did not just accept what he said as truth?

  29. LJ says:

    I GUESS SOME PEOPLE, BY SOME OF THE RESPONSES, LIKE BEING HOOD-WINKED. THERE IS A MANDATE IN HOLY WRIT TO EXPOSE THOSE WHO DISTORT AND PIMP THE GOSPEL. THIS IS BIBLICAL AND MUCH NEEDED W/ IN CHRISTENDOM. THIS JUST LETS ME KNOW THAT PEOPLE CAN EASILY BE LEAD ASTRAY BECAUSE THEY DON’T KNOW THE WORD THEMSELVES….GOD HELP US.

  30. Trish says:

    Hi everyone!

    Just reading and trying to understand everyone’s position. There is a lot of false doctrine out there and in my church as well and quite frankly I am a little annoyed with it, but anyway I just want to understand more about being taught by apostles and I have a few things I would like to share and clarify.

    Brother Mo (cool name) totally agree with you about reading things in context and understanding what was written to whom, for whom, and why.

    Scripture teaches us that ALL of the gifts that Christ gave to the church are necessary (Eph 4:11) so I do believe that apostles should exist today and they do have a place and a purpose, but not the place and purpose that the 12 had which was to set the foundation (because it has already been laid). The first-century apostles and prophets have fully equipped the church with the revelations given to them by the Lord for the New Covenant (which is spiritual and can be found in Heb. 8:10-13), so that all of the information the church needs to do its tasks is contained in Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

    Scripture teaches us that everything that we need for our faith was “once for all delivered to the saints” The expression “once for all” clearly indicates that the “delivery” of the faith is complete, so that we should not look for a new revelation. Everything a believer needs for the obedience of their faith is already written in Scripture (2 Tim 3:16-17).

    Brother Mo you wrote “John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. When we read the scriptures we have to look at the audience that is being addressed. In this scripture Jesus is speaking expressly to the apostles.”

    This is not true. In this scripture Jesus was praying for His disciples (they were not apostles). Not only was He praying for them, but He was praying for “them also which shall believe on me through their word” (John 17:20) – that means us too – all who follow Jesus. We have to keep in mind that Jesus was praying for His disciples in John Chapter 17 who would later become apostles. We also have to remember that Jesus had many disciples that He “sent out” to preach, hence the 70. He not only sent out the 12, but 70 other disciples also (Luke 10:1).

    You also said: “John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; So now He is praying for the church. But in this scripture the Lord Jesus also gives a qualifier. Believers are those who believe on Him through their word, whose word (the apostles).”

    Again this is not true. You see…we have keep in mind that they are disciples not apostles (yet). According to scripture – Luke chapter 10, they were preaching “the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you”. Jesus sent them to preach that and Jesus prayed for them who believed what they preached then and what they will later preach.

    You said: “If you read the scriptures who were the ones doing the teaching, it was the apostles. They carry the measure of grace to unfold the mystery of Christ to us, while building the foundation of truth within the heart.”

    This is only true of the 1st century apostles as it relates to mysteries. Every mystery that was ever hidden has been revealed by those apostles and written down for us in the Bible for our obedience of faith. There are no more mysteries that need to be revealed that is not already revealed in His Word – the Bible.

    Rom. 16:25-26
    “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith.”

    In 1Tim 3:16, Paul admits that “great is the mystery of godliness” and then he reveals what it is. It is the fact that God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

    Last but not least and there are many more scriptures that teaches us that the mysteries that was once hidden have been revealed already through their (the 1st century apostles) ministry. Col. 1:26 : “Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints.”

    You said: “For so long we have taken these scriptures out of context. Especially this one. Matt 3:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For so long I thought it was for us as the church to know the mysteries, but if we look at the audience who was He addressing. Once again He is speaking to the apostles.”

    There needs to be clarity on this. Matt 13:17 relates to a parable Jesus spoke. We have to understand the idea behind the word parable is “to throw along side of.” It is a story thrown along side the truth intended to teach. Parables have been called “earthly stories with a heavenly meaning.” Jesus explains the purpose of parables in Matt. 13: 10-17. Jesus explained that He used parables so that the hearts of those rejecting would not be hardened further. The parables of Jesus were not illustrations making difficult things clear to all who heard. They were a way of “encoding” God’s message so the spiritually sensitive could understand, but the hardened would merely hear a story. The parables are given in light of Jesus’ rejection by the Jewish leaders. By speaking in parables, Jesus also fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, speaking in a way that the hardened would hear but not hear and see but not see. Again Jesus was taking to His disciples not yet apostles in reference to the Jews harden hearts. We also have to understand that the word “mysteries” in Scripture is not used in its classical sense-of religious secrets, nor yet of things incomprehensible, or in their own nature difficult to be understood-but in the sense of things of purely divine revelation. “The mysteries of the kingdom of heaven,” then, mean those glorious Gospel truths which at that time only disciples could appreciate, and they only understood it partially. Your notion that “mysteries” are only given to apostles during this age only to be shared with believers, because they can’t know apart from them is not true.

    You also said: “1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. So here is confirmation penned by the apostle Paul. He was not speaking in a general sense of ministry, this particular verse of scripture again is confirming the office of the apostle.”

    Yes HIS office and what God called Him and the other 11 to do to set the pattern and foundation for the church, which is already written in the Bible.

    “To say that we do not need apostles, would be saying that we do not need the grace of God, for each office of spiritual government carries a different measure of grace. The apostles are the ones who plant within the heart the truth of Jesus Christ.”

    Yes we do need apostles and yes every office is given a measure of grace and yes the apostles – those 1 century apostles planted the truth of Jesus Christ which is ALL contained in scripture.

    “I know that this is hard for most to digest seeing that the church has been in darkness for about 2000 years.”

    Who told you that or where did you get that from? Sincerely asking.

    “But as the office of the apostle is restored, along with the believers priesthood, the saints of God can get off of the journey filled with mountaintop and valley experiences and learn how to abide in Christ.”

    Is this a general statement meaning that every believer is on a “journey” and don’t know how to abide in Christ because they are not taught by apostles? Certainly you must know that this is ludicrous. The only way a believer will be “filled with mountaintop and valley experiences” (continually) is if they are not praying, studying His word and obeying it, loving the saints, encouraging the saints and I can go on an on but to sum it up simply walking in the Sprit. When we obey God, rely and recognize His grace and obey Him by putting our faith in action with obedience we will bear much fruit because He is fathering our souls and transforming us into His image (daily). If we do this daily, faithfully and consistently – we will not stumble or fall. We have to grow in grace and in the knowledge of Jesus Christ and one can’t grow if they don’t know the Word and if they don’t know the word they can’t obey him and if they don’t obey Him it is impossible for them to abide in Him. Scripture clearly teaches us how to abide in Him and these scriptures came from Jesus and the writings of the apostles and we have it in our possession (the bible) and in our hearts (because we study them and do them) so that we may not sin against Him.

    God bless you.

  31. Trish says:

    One more thing:

    As it relates to Apostles and this “great transition” and everyone leaning from them to “truly” abide in Christ is bogus and it sounds like a cult. Apostles are important yes, just like every other gift to the Church, but it is strange how so much emphasis is being placed on them like they are God Him self.

    First of all we have to understand that the 1st Century apostles had a special mission – a mission that has been fulfilled that Jesus’ promised to build the church. The disciple Peter (and ultimately the rest of them later turned apostles) was promised the keys of the kingdom, and whatever he would bind on earth would have already been bound in heaven. And whatever he would loose on earth would have already been loosed in heaven. The promise to build His church is now official as plans go forward to make it a reality. This is where the apostles came in.

    The word apostle means ambassador, someone who was sent on behalf of another for a specific purpose. The one sent usually carried the full authority of the sender. Those sent by God with His message were apostles. The word apostle is used in different ways in the NT. Sometimes it refers to a special group of people who held the office of the apostle (1 Cor. 12:28; Eph. 4: 11). An examination of the Bible reveals a clear distinctness with the original 12, and later, Matthias (Acts 1:26). They were granted special rewards in the New Jerusalem (Matt. 19:28; Rev. 21:14) that no one else could attain. Clearly these 12 apostles were unique. But there were also other apostles who were commissioned by Christ, Paul being the most noteworthy. In 1 Cor. 15:7, 9 Paul indicates that one of the criteria for being an apostle was to have seen Jesus and been personally commissioned by Him. This was true of the 12 and also Paul.

    Every book in the NT was written by an apostle or a close associate of the apostles. To state it loosely, their primary work was to give us the NT writings. Jesus gave us the New Testament (covenant) through His blood, the apostles gave us the New Testament doctrine through their writings and teachings. This is the meaning of Eph. 2:20. Once that foundation has already been laid (Jude 3), it is time to build on it. The foundation does not have to be laid again, anymore than Christ has to die again. Therefore there is no need for apostles today to operate like they onece did. They did what was needed to be done already. Now it is time for pastors, evangelists and teachers to build. 1 Cor. 3:5-10 illustrate the difference between an apostle and a teacher. Paul laid the foundation, Apollos built on it.

    Saints let’s study and read the bible so that we will not be tricked by these “new teachings”. We have all that we need to abide in Christ through His Word by His Spirit.

    As it relates to 2 Peter 1:20-21 “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.”

    This does not mean when a believer opens their bible to read it not to beable to understand it on their own because they need someone to interpret it for them like an “apostle”.

    This simply means that even in Peter’s day, enemies of Jesus were twisting Old Testament prophecies, giving them personal and bizarre meanings so as to exclude Jesus from their fulfillment. But Peter says that prophecy is not of any private interpretation, but its meaning is evident and can be confirmed by others. Scripture interprets scripture.

    Though Peter here speaks of prophecy of Scripture, the same principle is true for the gift of prophecy today. There must be sober confirmation of any prophetic word, and that not through another prophetic word, but through the Scriptures. In the gift of prophecy, God never speaks to only one person, and always provides confirmation.

  32. Alan Higgins says:

    Thankyou for your contribution Trish

  33. endtimespropheticwords says:

    Hi all

    Prophet Seel/Joanne Cremer belong to the following cult: Second8thweek ministries, some more info is here –

    http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/eric-vonanderseck-joanne-cremer-of-second8thweek-ministries/

  34. Alan Higgins says:

    Thanks for that. I thought someone was a bit dodgy looking at his comments

  35. David says:

    Amazing…all the people who defend this pulpit pimp.

    Absolutely amazing. Like sheep to the slaughter.

    And I thought the fools who bought Obama’s line of manure were ignorant?

  36. Pam says:

    I come from the church system, past tense, but was called out by GOD to HIM, for a time of restoration and healing after a pretty hectic, hurtful time to say the least.

    In this time GOD Himself spoke to me and taught me with confirmation by two or three and more witnesses.

    I can see all sides here BUT do think that in SOME areas the foundation has become shaky and been built upon sand.

    That’s why I believe some called to 5 fold Gov’t (Apostles in particular) WILL re-introduce the original pattern, (Book of Acts style church) as it HAS to happen for the work to stand and be established.

    Just as will the Prophets, Teachers, Pastors (shepherds) and Evangelists do their work.

    There is deception out there, there is deceit, trickery, focus on money and material possessions and there IS a need for the church to return to her first love.

    Spiritual discernment is needed more than ever now and I DO believe there is carnal discernment.

    As I believe there is too much of the world in the church.

    In the love, mercy and grace of GOD to all.

    Pam

  37. JC says:

    Rock on Paula

  38. Stephen Wong says:

    I am not a follower of Paula White and was just browsing the internet. I don’t take “big” men and women of God that seriously. In a way they sometimes draw attention to themselves and their agenda.

    But you seem to have an agenda as well. “I am right. I will prove it even it hurts you”.

    This is the human condition – crticising someone else and finding things to criticise like a dog after a bone. You need to ease up a bit on someone who is obviously going through serious crap. None of us are perfect.

  39. Phil says:

    Very descriptive post, I loved that a lot.
    Will there be a part 2?

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