I will readily admit that I have always been a pre-tribulationist but then I saw the video below on the Independent Conservative and it gave me food for thought. It is 24 mins in length but you NEED to watch all of it
The thing is they have used the scripture to put across their view and on first glance it looks like they have rightly divided the word. Admittedly I have to study this a bit further for myself but could it be that a lot of us could be wrong to think that the rapture will come before the tribulation?
That’s an interesting video; saw it quite some time ago. Thank you for putting it up.
I’m a post-tribulationist.
Pre-trib. Post-trib. Mid-trib. Already-trib! Geez… what a wedge it is. I wish we could all just remember that we are to be ready every minute of every day because the date of Christ Jesus’ return isn’t coded somewhere in the Holy Bible.
My father and my stepmother and my mother believe in the pre-tribulation rapture. Honestly, I can’t prove anything to anyone about this 100%, but why should we relax and think that we’re all good to go? That’s what I ask them… at least pretend that there’s a slight possibility that this is how the Church will be tested and purified.
I mean, woe to the women with children at this time… are we to think babies in the womb — who are quite innocent — are gonna get ‘caught up’ and their sinful mothers get ‘left behind?’
Anyway, try reading Matthew 24…and pay close attention to the ’sequence’ of events Christ Jesus describes to HIS disciples.
Peace,
http://lavrai.com/blogs/2008/03/31/no-one-knows-the-day-or-hour-of-christ-jesus-return/
That’s an interesting thought there.
I just wanna be ready, no matter when he comes but I still wanna get a grasp biblically on this subject
I’m a pre-wrath rapturist myself, and like I said to IC, I see a lot of truth in all 3 three systems. I don’t see it as an issue related to one’s salvation but I do see as something people should be tooled up about
I am stealing this video bro!! Love your site. I have been wrestling with the typical dispensational pre-trib rapture guys for a while. It just don’t add up man. God bless
I am a pre-wrath! I used to be a pre-trib until about a year or so ago, when the Lord took me to His Word, and made me stop just accepting what everyone was saying. When you really look at the whole of scripture is amazing what the Lord can teach you. We were not appointed for wrath, but we will go through tribulations!
At His Feet,
Stephanie
What the? You crazy Americans
Stephanie,
The pre-wrath position is gathering storm among quite a lot of Reformed guys I hang about with. I don’t believe in throwing the baby out with the bath water when it comes to eschatology
When you say a pre-wrath rapturist, do you mean raptured before the tribulation? Pardon my ignorance
There are so many scriptures you would have to look at, but I mean after the 6th seal. As you study you will notice, no one even recognizes that the Day of the Lord is here until after the 6th seal. John seems to stop right in the middle of his speaking to tell us that now he sees a multitude before the throne, which no one can count and the sealing of the 144,000, which we know, no harm can come to. These 2 groups are not appointed unto wrath. If you were to study the feasts of the Lord from Jewish culture, if you were to study the 6th seal in regards to Matthew and the other signs of the Day of the Lord, they begin to line up quite perfectly. Also I always had a hard time even when I was a pre-trib with Paul saying that Day would not come unless the apostasy occures AND the man of lawlessnes was revealed. Remember he was talking to believers there. We are truly in the apostasy and it is full blown among us. But my study now has led me to conclude that we will be a part of the first 6 seals, known as a time of tribulation.
I too would like to know what pre-wrath is.
This is another example of video makers that don’t understand the that the church will not suffer the wrath of God. The wrath of man yes but not the cups of wrath revealed in beginning in Revelation chapter 4. Its termed the blessed hope to escape these judgments of an angry God. Read Revelation 1thur 3 then follow the church from that point on beginning in Chapter 4. Ask yourself where is the church at that point on?
@12:30 he says “and they shall gather together Gods elect from the four winds and so shall we ever be with the lord”
this is just a evil man with no regard for the truth, its been said you can make the bible say anything and using this method of pick a verse and pair it, pull it , stretch it and you got jumbo gumbo and its poison.
The silent rapture is a Strawman argument. Silence isn’t the belief its secret in that its not seen by those who don’t have eyes to see, its to His church. Just as today you can preach but some don’t have ears to hear because of the hardness of their hearts. When Jesus comes back to put down the battle of Armageddon and rule from Jerusalem as the Son Of David that’s not the the same as described in 1 Thess 4:16. Pre-trib is being caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall “we” ever be with the Lord. In his second coming “we” will be with him
How do post-trib people explain.–
1 Thes 1:9-10
Romans 5:9
1 Thes 4:13-5:11
2 Thes 2:1-12
Rev 3:7-22
These suggest Pre-trib
In all that we believe, remember Rapture and the Quickening are different goals for Planet Evacuation in this era of increasing predestined trouble.
A hidden truth of Rapture found in 1st Thessalonians verse 16 & 17, tells how a specific Upper Regional Satellite & Relay Host referred to as ‘Lord God’, will be visibly seen at the same time as a smaller Satellite Relay Host. This Foremost and most powerful Relay Host will be positioned just below their alignment’s Parenting Mother Sphere, and is in their own Enclosed Area of Open Space referred to as a ‘Heaven’. It will be this Foremost Relay Host which will sound off of a specific group of frequency tones which opens a linking portal passage.
This spiraling portal tunnel will extend down through space and time, leading to a second in place yet smaller Regional Satellite Host referred to as a Lord Host. This second in Place Relay Host is the Central Power Source to that Tribal Colony which inhibits their own smaller Enclosed Area of Open Space referred to as a ‘Heaven’.
This portal passage will then reach all the way down unto an opening wormhole which will be seen from this planet.
But not only will a people of Faith from the surface of this planet be taken aboard city size Mobile Crafts, and the coming fleet of 144,000 in rapture at this time, but the next verse tells how they will be taken up together with those celestial colonies in wait, which are concealed in transparent heavens of enclosed areas of space which float as a glass bubble in Earth’s upper skies. All spoken of here will be taken to meet this Celestial Lord Host and His accompanied Star Fleet, in that open atmosphere of His Heaven. Image that many such heavens of enclosed areas of space are established of worlds similar to what is known as the Jetsons TV show; and imagine many others to be established as enclosed Flat Land Islands of ever flourishing rain forests, which were referred to as Gardens of Eden.
Because of this completed Truth, Earthen Humanity must grow past those childish thoughts of bird wings on the back of flying angels coming to gather them for rapture. We should now heed visual perceptions of Winged Crafts of Star Ships in their design of Superior Technology, which many of Angels in ancient scriptures actually were.
1st Thessalonians verse 16 & 17 as it reads in scriptures of metaphor;
For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout , with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.
Using correct translation of specific Words, it has been allowed me to interpret this scripture as so;
For the Regional Governing Satellite Power Source Himself, shall descend from an upper open area of an enclosed pocket of space at the same time as a loud atmospheric noise, at the same time as the vibration of a composed arrangement of frequencies sounding off of the First Regional Satellite Cherub Host, and at the same time as the highest held portal opening frequency tuner of A Head Governing Power Source.
Be safe, be well, beware
evelynseedofdavid@gmail.com
281-440-1918 …. 15806 Winding Moss-B …. Houston Texas 77068
For a definition of pre-wrath, go to Rev. 11:15-18. The angel says at the seventh trumpet that the wrath of God has come, speaking present tense.
Everything that happens before the seventh trumpet is pre-wrath.
Rev. 14:6-7, the Gospel reaches the whole world.
Meets Jesus’s criteria that the gospel be preached in the whole world.
Rev. 14:7 HOUR of judgement has come, but the people still have a choice to turn to God. It’s a test.
Meets criteria of the promise to be spared HOUR of trial to temp the whole world in Rev. 3.
Rev. 14:9 Mark of the beast has been implemented.
Meets pauls critera of the day wouldn’t come unless the man of sin is reveiled.
Rev. 14:16 The earth is reaped. This is the Rapture.
All of this at the seventh trumpet in Revelation, the LAST trumpet in the bible, the GREATest of the seven trumpets, and the TRUMPET where the kingdom OF GOD is proclaimed.
All references outside the book of Revelation to the rapture give it’s time. Jesus said with the sound of a great trumpet, paul said with the last trumpet and the trumpet of God. The only trumpet that fits is the 7th trumpet.
Jesus says that his return will be like a thief in the night, but this applies to those who aren’t watching for it. He tells us to watch so that it DOESN’T overtake us as a thief in the night. The day or hour can not be pinpointed, but the rapture can be located in a sequence of events.
Even Jesus said (in luke) When you see these things begin to take place, Look up and lift your heads, your redemption draweth nigh.
How are we supposed to see these things take place if we aren’t here?
Why did Jesus mention what we call the rapture AFTER the Beginning of sorrows and persecution?
Why did Jesus spend so much time warning us of the persecution to come and how to act during it if we weren’t going to be here?
I agree with this video, but only because I have devoted hours of study into this same question and came up with the EXACT same conclusion BEFORE watching it. ALL of the scripture points toward the rapture, even the scripture pre-tribbers use to support their claims, happening at the 7th trumpet.
Lastly, this subject should not divide any two christians on any level. The fact is, either way, Jesus is coming to get us. We have to continue shining our light with love until he gets here
Amen to ‘this subject should not divide any two christians on any level’. Either way, we need to preach the gospel
Here is how I see it happening. The new moon will be spotted on Wednesday October 1st in Israel, making it Tuesday afternoon in America. THis is when the midnight cry will go out, and the Rapture of the Church will occur at this time, September 30th, on Tuesday, in America.
The way I come up with this, is the compelling Blood Red Moon Scenario that occurs in 2014 and 2015, exactly on solemn feast days. This does not occur again for another 500 years I believe…. And with the way things are in the world right now as I type this, I completely feel confident that this is really it this time. The last time I thought that the rapture was coming, was in 2000. But do yourselves a favor, go read Psalms 108 (2008) and pay close attention to verse 6
Then go read Psalms 109 (2009) and read verse 6.
The church is gone in Psalms 109, and it talks about the Antichrist. Folks, we are gone outta here in 2008, and next week is the week. Tuesday, look out, or look up. He`s coming
Mark
Jesus said nobody will know the date.
With regard to this subject, which I admit I do not have that much spiritual knowledge of, I have always kind of thought that the ‘rapture’ would not be a physical one but the time when God would ’seal our souls’ so that no matter what the World or the devil could throw at us, we would never be led off course.
I have always thought it was protection from spiritual harm rather than physical harm…? Although I agree that i don’t think God would let us suffer his final wrath upon the Earth so I’m a bit stuck. I guess if I had to pick a view point it would be pre-wrath. I think we will be around during the tribulation which seems as if it’s possibly already started.
I’m sure though that God will protect us from His wrath, but not that of man – a lot of true Christians will and already have suffered at the hands of men.
Remember, Jesus Christ paid for ALL of our sins on the cross at Calvary. The post-trib view seems almost sadistic, as if people want to go through pain.
If everyone had to go through Tribulation, then all the people that died before would have to be brought back from the dead and live with everyone to prove their purity. The chance of Satan apologizing to God is greater than that!!
And Mark, Laura’s right. To come at an UNKNOWN time MEANS and UNKNOWN time.
Have any of you ever considered that maybe the rapture is going to take place in the 7th seal? Me and my husband have been doing research on this lately. If you read about the 7th seal you will see that there is silence in heaven for 1/2 hour. Any other time John speaks of heaven the beasts and 24 elders are worshipping around the throne.
Revelation 4:8 says “they rest not day and night saying, Holy, holy, holy Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come”. We think that in Ch. 8:1 where it says there is silence in heaven is when Jesus is gone from the throne, to the clouds to gather his elect from the four corners of the earth. Just something to think about
I must say that I have been looking at three sides to the rapture. I was raised pre-trib, but have begun to questin some of those teachings. My only concern is should I get ready in the physical? I have a large family. (6 kids) I know that we shouldn’t worry because we are in His hands, but does that mean I should’nt take measures to try and keep my family safe? The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, however, this blessed nation was founded because God fearing men took up arms.
based on Marks comment, I guess I missed it.
For all post tribbers go to this site: Gracethrufaith.com
and you can get all the explanation you need to see why I believe in a pre trib rapture. Jack Kelley who writes this site also takes any question concerning the Bible you want to ask and he will answer your email and also publish it on his site.
I don’t think I’m aware of another person who knows more about the Bible and Bible prophecy then this man.
Luke 21:36 (King James Version)
36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Emphasis….ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS
Hello people
What I’ve been hearing alot lately is a bunch of hype surrounding this mysterious planet nibiu or planet x. The Religious groups says it may the Wormwood of the Bible, New Age Gurus, says the Gods reside in the planets surrounding this star. This thing is on approach accoding to some, to complete its 3600 year orbit around the sun. Its passing is supposed to cause major amage to this planet ergo armagedon or so they say. Like I said, there’s lots of talk about this planet. I wanted to know wht you all thought.
Alastor
I have not heard about this Alastor so cannot comment apart from its not in the bible so reject it
Alan,
In all my readings, I have discovered more similarites and revelations than by just reading the Bible. Keep in mind, the Bible itself is a compliation af may books and scriptures. The answer rarely is in just one soucre, but many. If you have an open mind, read this passage about the 2nd comming of Christ and His plans to expand humanity beyond the stars:
http://www.be-ready.org/babel.html
the author seems to be a learned Christian and offers a practical approach to the rapture and Human ascention.
Enjoy
Alastor
Hey guys it will be a pre-rapture let me tell you how, its says that no man knows the day or hour, well in revelations it says when you see the the antichrist proclaiming himself to be god in the temple, it says that there will be 1260 days left till jesus return so dont believe everything you here and also that scripture that says that he will descend from hevean with a shout, well if you look at it when jesus returns he will be coming to set up his 1000 year kindgom here on earth, now there is only to comings right well he doesnt come to the earth he comes to the clouds so that proves that there will be a pre rapture. so be ready and wait for our lord jesus christ cause he is coming soon
God warns of FALSE PROPHETS AND DECEPTION RIGHT BEFORE HE COMES FOR US, IT SEEMS THAT YOU ALL ARE FALLING RIGHT INTO THIS TRAP. THE RAPTURE IS A REWARD FOR THOSE WHO ARE SAVED AND BAPTISED AND OBEY GOD’S COMMANDMENTS. THE PURPOSE OF THE TRIBULATION IS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE TURNED THEIR BACKS ON GOD. IT’S REALLY THAT SIMPLE, DON’T THINK INTO IT TOO MUCH? IF YOU ARE NOT LOOKING FOR GOD WHEN HE DECIDES TO COME FOR US, YOU WILL STAY BEHIND. THE BIBLE TELLS US THIS. GOD IS ON THE VERGE OF RAPTURING US ASAP, PLEASE DON’T MISS THE FLIGHT, KEEP YOUR EYES AND EARS ON HIM, NOT WHAT OTHERS ARE SAYING? I PRAY THAT GOD WILL RIGHT NOW OPEN YOUR EYES AND FILL YOU WITH HIS WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE TO SEE THESE FALSE PROPHETS. THERE IS ONLY ONE RAPTURE!!!!!
I get the feeling that you think typing your conviction about this matter in upper case somehow validates it and makes it irrefutable.
1. Yes, God warns us against false prophets. By hold fast to this we will not be taken captive by any hollow or deceptive philosophy regardless of who says it or when the rapture occurs.
2. The purpose of the Tribulation may be for those who have turned their backs on God, but if there aren’t any Christians to point the lost to the truth found in the Bible (Because God knows none of them will want to pick one up themselves) I don’t think there is much of a purpose in trying them for seven years… might as well ship them all to hell in one go.
3. Some scriptural support for your arguments would be nice.
Sidenote: I don’t really care when it will take place. I would like a pre-tribulation rapture but recently the evidence I’m digging up seems to push me into the mid-trib or pre-wrath side of the fence.
when JESUS comes (2nd coming) and people try to stop him, they will be raptured. we are in the great tribulation now. i hope i will see and experience the 2nd coming. we need HIM much.
i have not watched this whole video because i believe it to be crap. there is one rapture not three. jesus comes back to save the people who followed him before the seven year ugly horrible tribulation of the people who did NOT follow him. i come into agreement witrh jennifer and i pray that you guys will open your eyes to the crap these false prophets are feeding you. Its fear! we are not supposed to be afraid of the rapture, when it comes if you are saved and are truly in love with God then you will be “caught up” in the rapture.n If you are not, and you believe in God and his son but are still living your life the way the world does then you will not…end of story. Because remember folks, the devil believes in God&Jesus too!