Revival shown on God TV…or is it?
May 6, 2008 by Alan Higgins
OK, I was on another website and someone commented ‘Have ya’ll heard about the Florida outpouring? Check it out on God TV at 7.00pm onwards every night! Be excited…God is about to move!’
For those of you who don’t know, God TV is a christian television channel here in the UK which broadcasts around the world. It has a lot of false teachers/word of faith preachers on it like the Copelands, Creflo Dollar, Jesse Duplantis, Benny Hinn and they occasionally do beg-a-thons Missions Week where they get in people like Mike Murcoch and Steve Munsey to help with fund raising. It seems like I am not the only one who has beef with God TV. Check out this post
How do we preach the gospel? By preaching repentance and faith? Don’t be silly. Benny Hinn will tell you how
That’s right. You preach the gospel by ’sowing that seed’. Shame on you if you didn’t know 
But I digress, so going back to the ‘Florida outpouring’, I turned over the channel to see this ‘outpouring’ and what do I see. I see a man called Todd Bentley doing ‘Benny Hinn’ style of ‘healings’ in Florida. When I saw it, I had to ask the question “Is that it? Is that what is now classed as revival?”
It never ceases to amaze me how deceived people can be. All because of a lack of knowledge of sound doctrine or because people just cannot be bothered to read the bible themselves. For example here is a quote from Todd Bentley
“If an anointed point is made by a minister of the gospel and an associate wants that particular point activated in their life, they will immediately sow into it. By that I mean, they will run up to the pulpit or the altar—“I want that”—and sow into the anointing in that moment of glory, by placing an offering there. Bam! Just whatever is said, they sow into it. Of course they can’t buy the anointing, but on the other hand they can sow into it.”
And the bible verse for that is …….hmmmmm….that’s right. There isn’t one. He also says that scripture speaks of an angel that releases finances. Check out Phil 4:19 for yourself. What do you mean you cant see it? Just do some scripture twisting and it will appear. You can read some of Todd Bentley’s teachings here and also here where he talks about going into trances, seeing angelic beings and how we should pray that we can see angels and get a visitation from them.
Check out a clip of his ‘Florida Revival’. Look familiar?
If this is what the priest wants to bring back to Engalnd, I hope he stays where he is.
Below are two videos which does a good job exposing some of the false teachers for who they are.
The Signs and Wonders Movement Expo$ed - Part 1
The Signs and Wonders Movement Expo$ed - Part2
Related Posts:
The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 1 - A Form of godliness
The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 2 - Scripture Twisting
The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 5 - The Prosperity Gospel
The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers (Interlude) - My reason for doing this
The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 7 - Signs and Wonders
The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 9 - Giving False Hope
The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers - The Conclusion
I actually checked out Todd Bentley “live” on his Internet broadcast and I’ve had enough just after 10 minutes or so.
He was talking about the presence of angels evidenced by blue orbs or something just as I entered the channel, then went on to talk about how he dumped a demon out of his house where he battled it then saw a huge tube come down from heaven, something akin to a vacuum tube he said, and suck the demon away.
Hmm… yea, right. He must sure have some special powers alright for a special tube to be called because Jesus sure didn’t use that “vacuum tube” thing.
Hi Alan,
Great post!
I am under the firm belief that GOD TV will be one of three networks (TBN, DAYSTAR) who will usher in the antichrist….all this “revival” or “outpouring” is just a warm up act preparing for the real thing…..
Pray Brothers and Sisters!
This is nothing more, nothing less than a manifestation of the prevailing attitude of these last days. My dad seems to love watching this guy, so much so that he is planning to go down to Florida!!! Needless to say, this whole thing stinks of what happened in Toronto and Brownsville…
YOU ARE BLINDED BY LIES, DECEPTIONS AND YOUR FLESH IF YOU BELIEVE WHAT TODD BENTLEY AND HIS HERETICS ARE DOING IS OF GOD. THERE HAVE BEEN THOUSANDS OF FALSE PROPHETS AND HERETICS IN HISTORY LEADING PEOPLE INTO DOCTRINES OF DEVILS AND BLASPHEMIES, TODD BENTLEY IS NO DIFFERENT AND WILL FALL UNDER THE JUDGMENT OF GOD IF HE DOES NOT REPENT AND PUBLICLY DENOUNCE HIS SATANIC DOCTRINES AND DECEPTIONS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. RETURN TO THE HOLY BIBLE AND ITS SOUND DOCTRINES OR YOU WILL FALL WITH ALL THESE HERETICS WHO ARE THE ENEMIES OF GOD SERVING ANOTHER GOSPEL LEADING OTHERS INTO DESTRUCTION.
Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.
Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies
1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils
1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Tts 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
Tts 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers….Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.
Tts 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness
PASTE ALL OF THESE QUOTES IN TODD BENTLEY’s CHAT TO WARN THE DECEIVED OF THE WORD OF GOD THROUGH THE BIBLE, PERHAPS A FEW WILL HAVE EARS TO HEAR AND REPENT OF TODD BENTLEY’s BLASPHEMIES. HIS HEALINGS AND MIRACLES ARE ALL A LIE AND TODD COULD NOT SHOW ANY PROOF OF HEALING OF ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY RELATED TO A BIBLICAL EXAMPLE OF A HEALING IF HE WAS PUT TO ANY KIND OF SCIENTIFIC TEST. EVEN JESUS HIMSELF WHEN HE HEALED SOMEONE TOLD HIM AFTERWARDS TO GO TO THE PRIEST TO PROVE WHAT HAD BEEN DONE SO THAT THERE MAY BE WITNESSES. TODD IS ONLY AFTER YOUR MONEY AS MOST ALL TV PREACHERS ARE AND LEECHES OFF YOUR DESPERATION AND THE MADNESS OF VARIOUS PENTECOSTAL FALSE GOSPELS, IF YOU ONLY KNEW WHAT WAS INSIDE THE MINDS OF THESE HERETICS AND THEIR TRUE INTENTIONS YOU WOULD BE SHOCKED. THERE ARE SOME GOOD DOCUMENTARIES OUT THERE EXPOSING SOME OF THESE GUYS ON FILM SUCH AS “the great apostasy the last sign” from cultlink.
All you fellow Christians who believe in the sound doctrines of the Bible and who know video stuff should produce your own documentaries as well.
The mouths of these deceivers must be stopped
There isn’t anything that I can say to most of you that will change your judgmental attitudes, so with this in mind I have 2 questions for you:
1. Has God ever used someone to impact your life in
a supernatural manner?
2. What if this is God and you are the ones that have
“missed the boat”?
I look forward to the responses
My response is that God will not do something contrary to his word. Nothing is wrong with righteous judgment (John 7:24) ie seeing if something lines up to the word of God. Thus we miss the boat if what we speak is unbiblical
Alan
PS I will be posting a video tomorrow about judging
Alan,
As far as being contrary to the Word, how , ’bout backing your
opinion up with 2 or more Scriptures….
LM
I have said one above already but an example of scripture twisting is Phil 4:19 where he says that it speaks of an angel that releases finances
Then Todd bently says “When you honor and talk about the supernatural or you honor and talk about angels, guess what starts showing up? Angels”. There is NO scripture reference to back this up (unless you can show me one)
libraryman,
Are you so gullible that you believe everything that you, see, read or hear? I wuld assume that you are not, because we each have our own opinions as to what we believe.
I am like many in this room and have my reservations about what is actually happening and I have no guilt in my heart about questioning what is going on.
1 John 3:1 “Beloved believe not every spirirt , but try the spirits whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”
Many times we will be deceived by the charisma and the signs and wonders that follow people. Jesus said in Matt. 24:24 that false Christs and false prophets will deceive the very elect if it were possible. I believe that many are now being deceived because we, the Church, have been so dumbed down that we accept any new revelation that comes from these so-called prophets.
We have placed ourselves in a position that affords no accountability for religious leaders. Many of these men that are so revered in this movement have been proven to live contrary to what the Scriptures call for us to live. But, let me say that I completely believe in restoration to the ministry if they reject the false teachings and embrace the truth of the Word of God. Most of what these men teach is nothing more than New Age doctrines taught under the guise of Christianity. They teach spiritual vizualization which is nothing more than what the NEw Agers refer to as being led into enlightment by guided visualization. We have accepted these doctrines as “new wine”, when they are nothing more than occultic practices that are used by shaman, witches, sorcerers and New Age gurus, these doctrines are occultic and dangerous to our spiritual walk with God.
These practices are dangerous enough, but when you couple it with the fact that many of these “prophets” say that they hear from God and reveal these new doctrines and prophesy about the “winds of change”, but they forget to mention that many of them only “prophesy” at 80% accuracy or less. By Scriptural guidelines, their accuracy rates exclude them from being a prophet of God, unless they are sent with a lying spirit, 1 Kings 22:22-23, which I believe may be the case, to give them a strong delusion so they would believe a lie, 2 Thess. 2:9-2.
Many of these men live lifestyles that are contrary to the Word of God, but there is rarely any scrutiny brought about because of their lives. Let me give you an example: Paul Cain, one of the movements “super prophets” appeared at the meeting on Sunday night, who started his ministry in the 1940’s under the tent in the healing revivals. He says that Jesus appeared to him and told him to get rid of his wife to be because He was jealous of her. He then made a vow of celibacy, and up until 2003 he kept his secrets well hidden. During the time of 2003 Rick Joyner and others heard that he was living life as a homosexual and an alcoholic. They kept this secret for a year, then went public with it in 2004. They were happy to hide this man’s life in order to further their own kingdom. They offered this man restoration under them, he refused and claimed that the charges were false for 3 months, only to admit that they were all true. He went under restoration procedures and is now back proclaiming to be a prophet. Let me again say that I believe that this man can be restored and was proud to see this man once again take the stage and proclaim the Word of God and believed that he had been delivered. But his own words betrayed him in the end.
He called a young man, one of Bentley’s interns front and center, and prophesied over him. When he opened his moth to speak over this man he lied before God, the thousands there and the millions watching on TV. He told how he had vowed to live a celibate lifestyle and had done so for all these years. When he said this I couldn’t believe that he would stand and say that, how can a man that has come through a restoration process for homosexuality have lived a celibate lifestyle? But then I thought about it and realized how hypocritical this man had been during meetings, calling out people’s sins and all the while living his life as he did. I firmly believe many of these men have a lying spirit in their mouths and will stop at nothing to usher in the apostate church prophesied by Paul.
I love this, thanks for opening up a dialogue…..
I realize that it is not my responsibility to try and change
your minds about anything. I am not that powerful nor that
smart. What I sense here is an attitude that I had for over
15 years…..I have been where you are now, that’s OK. I really love all of you in the Lord.
I want to leave you with a few Scriptures and let the Spirit
do the work.
John 7:24 (New Living Translation)
Look beneath the surface so you can judge correctly.”
(Ask for verification, ask the Lord to show you or is your mind already made up?)
1 John 4:1-3, 4-6, 7-8
Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here. (Todd acknowledges Jesus and the truth about Jesus.)
But you belong to God, my dear children. You have already won a victory over those people, because the Spirit who lives in you is greater than the spirit who lives in the world. Those people belong to this world, so they speak from the world’s viewpoint, and the world listens to them. But we belong to God, and those who know God listen to us. If they do not belong to God, they do not listen to us. That is how we know if someone has the Spirit of truth or the spirit of deception. (Todd is speaking from the world’s viewpoint???)
Dear friends, let us continue to love one another, for love comes from God. Anyone who loves is a child of God and knows God. But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love. ( You’re showing love?? You’ve already tried and convicted him; have you asked him for verification….but then again you probably wouldn’t believe him no matter what he said or what proof he showed you. You could show Todd love by praying for him)
1 Cor 12:7-11 NLT
7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the [Holy] Spirit [the evidence, the spiritual illumination of the Spirit] for good and profit.
8 To one is given in and through the [Holy] Spirit [the power to speak] a message of wisdom, and to another [the power to express] a word of knowledge and understanding according to the same [Holy] Spirit;
9 To another [wonder-working] faith by the same [Holy] Spirit, to another the extraordinary powers of healing by the one Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles, to another prophetic insight (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose); to another the ability to discern and distinguish between [the utterances of true] spirits [and false ones], to another various kinds of [unknown] tongues, to another the ability to interpret [such] tongues.
11 All these [gifts, achievements, abilities] are inspired and brought to pass by one and the same [Holy] Spirit, Who apportions to each person individually [exactly] as He chooses
Seems to me that this is being done. Jesus is being glorified, ministries from Scotland, Pensacola, SC and more are giving testimonies. If you really wanted to seek the truth try and reach these people and ask them face to face
Romans 3:3 AMP
What if some did not believe and were without faith? Does their lack of faith and their faithlessness nullify and make ineffective and void the faithfulness of God and His fidelity [to His Word]?(Can this be said about the critics?)
2 Tim 3:5 NLT
For [although] they (you) hold a form of piety (true religion), they (you) deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them].
Hey, there are always critics. Someone said that
Jesus had a demon. Guess Todd is in good company.
LM
Alan you mentioned
I have said one above already but an example of scripture twisting is Phil 4:19 where he says that it speaks of an angel that releases finances
Then Todd bently says “When you honor and talk about the supernatural or you honor and talk about angels, guess what starts showing up? Angels”. There is NO scripture reference to back this up (unless you can show me one)
I will show you two:(There are plenty more examples)
Heb 1:14: Are not the angels all ministering spirits (servants) sent out in the service [of God for the assistance] of those who are to inherit salvation? What do we need assistance with? Would assistance be financial? God will supply and angels minister to us, serve us.
Psalm 34:7: The Angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him [who revere and worship Him with awe] and each of them He delivers. Delivers what? Whatever we need
Phil 4:19:And my God will liberally supply ([a]fill to the full) your every need according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
Why can’t God send angels to supply whatever we need?
We each have guardian angels who stand before God
Mat 18:10 talks about the angels watching over the kids
“Beware that you do not despise or feel scornful toward or think little of one of these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels always are in the presence of and look upon the face of My Father Who is in heaven.”
Ps 91 angels are ever standing guard to protect and provide us with whatever we need
Maybe it’s me but I don’t see any problems with angels
delivering to us anything that we need.
LM
libraryman,
I sat here tonight and watched this meeting and I heard no one preach the Gospel, yes there were professions of faith, but I saw no one crack the Bible to bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I applaud the fact that they have had professions of faith at each meeting, as well as on the street. This should be our primary concern, but tonight I saw the baptism of the Holy Ghost take center stage and the salvation of these people was pushed to the backburner.
I am Pentecostal and have experienced the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the initial physical evidence of speaking in tongues, and I rejoice when I see someone receive the baptism . I have prayed over people and God has done miraculous things, but my first concern is that people’s hearts are right. What good is pushing the baptism if people are not saved and are not eligible to receive the Holy Ghost.
This is not what I saw happen tonight. I saw people that were more worried about getting people spirit-filled and seeing them operate in the gifts of the Spirit and carry them back to their home churches, than they were about where they were going to spend eternity. We should love their soul enough that we offer them the chance to receive Jesus Christ, isn’t this what Jesus’ Great Commision states?
But, this is not isolated to these movements like this. This is a running problem in many Pentecostal churches. They put too much emphasis on the baptism and not enough on the salvation of the lost. The Pastors of these churches never see spiritual growth in their membership, because they are more concerned with the manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit. They preach spoon-deep messages and the flock close their Bibles and don’t crack them again until the next church service. They seem to be spiritually head and shoulders above everyone else, but they are some of the most Biblically shallow people that have ever graced a pew.
It has been my experience that most of these people that claim to be super-spiritual are nothing but phonies that are so haughty that they have no love for their fellow man. Paul said that if these gifts were not manifest in love then they were worthless. They claim to see visions and dream dreams, they have a word of knowledge for someone in the congregation, they come and pray for someone’s healing, but they only do these things to be seen. They don’t really care for the people that they are around, they only care that they show off their perceived spirituality, and by doing this they are worthless to the advancement of the Kingdom of God. They seek to serve their own kingdom and no one else’s.
This is why I am so guarded about situations like the one going on in Lakeland.
I don’t go around ‘honoring and talking about angels’ (though I do believe them) so does that mean that they do not show up in my life? Again there is no scripture to back this up and none of the scriptures you mentioned say that we must speak about angels for them to show up
Are you trying to tell me that from the plain reading of Phil 4:19, you can come to the interpretation that this means that there is an angel of finance.
Hebrews 1:14 is talking about salvation. Nothing to do with finance
Psalms 34:7. When it says he delivers it means he delivers us OUT OF, not delivers as in delivering like a postman
Matthew 18:10 talks about angels beholding the face of the father which is in heaven. Again nothing about there being a angel of finance
Psalms 91:11-12 from my translation says nothing about angels giving us what we need. Nor does it talk about a spirit of finance. Incidently, this is the same scripture that the devil twisted to try and get Jesus to jump off the cliff.
When you read scripture, you must always read the context and not use eisegesis (try and cram your theology into a text to make it say what you want it to say) but use exegesis (let the text speak as it is and then have a doctrine accordingly). Scripture determines doctrine. Doctrine does not determine scripture
Let me encourage you to check out http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/ten-rules-of-biblical-interpretation especially point 8
If I had to guess libraryman is from the “blab it and grab it” movement. People involved in this movement believe that God sends His angels to minister to us in special ways, ie. financial, new cars, new homes, etc….
They have forgotten about the words of Jesus found in Rev. 3:14-22, Jesus implores us to buy of Him gold tried by fire so we can be rich and white raiment so that we can be clothed. He says this because in vs. 17 we see that the people of this church no longer need God, they have more desire for material goods with no relationship with the Father.
We seek materialistic wealth and no longer worry about the truths of Christiandom, such as giving our goods to the poor, preaching the Gospel and living a holy lifestyle. We see Scriptures that are twisted to prove their point and we use materials as a gauge as to how much faith we have in God. God is not about materials, He is all about seeing us have a relationship with Him by the blood of Christ.
I do agree that He sends His angels to minister to us, but I do not see Him sending His angels to bring us money or the like.
I, also believe, that God will give us the desires of our heart, but if our heart only wants materials, one would have to question where their relationship is with God. Jesus said that it is better to have our treasures in heaven than it is on Earth. All the money we have and all the treasures we lay up here are nothing but junk, they are nothing but stubble that will be consumed by fire.
God also said, you shall know them by there fruit, weres your ministery, weres your God television, all your doing is slagging other christians off who are trying there best to win people for God. Im not sure you will find them spending there time writing posts about you mate.
Libraryman,
What does the following Scripture mean to you and can it be applied to this Bentley guy?
Colossians 2:18-19 (ESV)
18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.
Have a great day in the Lord!
Phil
So locket just because a person is on TV means they are doing ministry?
I’m glad you mentioned that scripture so lets look at it in context shall we
Matthew 7
15 “BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
How do you know what their fruit is? By their doctrine? How do you know their doctrine? By lining it up with scripture like the Bereans (Acts 17:11) and not just swallowing it up because the name of Jesus is mentioned
I have no problem people writing about me and correcting me. In fact I encourage it as long as you have scripture to back up your position. I want to be in line with the word of God
Hey all,
Everyone is free to believe what they want. There have
always been skeptics and there always will. There were
Pharisees then and there are Pharisees now.
The Apostle Paul believed that he was standing up for
God also before he really came to know Him by going around killing Christians. The same is being done today by citizens of the Kingdom. Of course here in America we “kill” Christians by our attitudes and our words and of course
Internet sites.
All things are possible to him who believes. I guess the
opposite is also true, not much is possible to him who
does not believe, but they reserve the right to criticize which must be another gift of the Spirit in some part
Scriptures can be shown to you until the proverbial cows come home but it won’t matter. Todd can have verification of the healings but it won’t matter. Do all people get healed? Of course not. He even mentions that.
If Moses would be here today, some would disqualify him for
a leadership position because he killed someone. Rahab
wouldn’t have a chance with the religious crowd today, yet
God makes sure she is commended for her faith in Heb 11.
Unless services are performed the way you want to see
them performed there is something wrong. If people don’t
say the words you want to hear, something is wrong. If
the miraculous shows up it probably isn’t God it’s probably
somehow demonic. How sad.
When those that believe are doing what the Lord says in
Mat 10:8: Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely (without pay) you have received, freely (without charge) give, they are pelted from the
audience…thank God the Lord has put me in many situations where I have seen the supernatural show up.
If you want to have a small God it is your choice.
Oh yeah, I am one of those blab and grab it folks:
Mark 11:24; For this reason I am telling you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe (trust and be confident) that it is granted to you, and you will [get it]. It has worked for me and will always work for me
As for those who do not believe, trust God for the miraculous, you can always launch a website and criticize those that do….
LM
Oh please, take time and listen to what you are saying. Moses had miracles - why? The miracles in the land of Egypt were signs of God’s judgement on the kingdom of Egypt - not gratituous works at the hand of Moses. Rahab experienced the miracle of regeneration [read the story carefully...] - she didn’t stay a sinner!
You go on to say that if a service isn’t done a certain way it must be demonic [most likely, you were taking a jab at us]. Well, in the Bible, I see the following as elements of any true worship service. Let’s see if Bentley matches up with any of these:
1. PRAYER - Bible-saturated, God-exalting prayer - not the gratituous, “I want it now” prayer that Bentley and his cronies are so fond of
2. PREACHING - Bentley fails at this miserably. I have watched EVERY episode since this nonsense started and Bentley has not preached the Bible ONCE. There has been no expository preaching out of his camp since the Lakeland “Revival” started. What’s worse, there has been no GOSPEL preached. What is the Gospel? It is the objective message of the Person and Redemptive Work of the Lord Jesus, subjectively applied by faith to the repentant sinner. No mention of the Gospel from that camp
3. PRAISE - Bentley warps the meaning of this third pillar. True worship springs from a heart thankful for the Gospel, not an unregenerate heart looking for signs and wonders. Worship is not dragging God out of heaven - it is our hearts raised to God in adoration
In the context of the church service, I would also add:
4. THE SACRAMENTS - Christian believers-only baptism and the partaking of the Lord’s Supper.
Finally, you went on to discuss that we want a “small God”. What a Biblically-ignorant statement to make. Let’s take Jesus Himself - when He healed the paralytic, which did He say was easier? Healing someone or regenerating the dead human heart? You see, your statement doesn’t fly in the face of Scripture! I’m gonna tap out on this one, because I end up writing my first book on Bro. Alan’s blog
Dear Libaryman
I assume you are well intentioned in your endeavours to convince us but I detect that most posters here are like the “noble men of Berea” and have learnt to search the scriptures “to see if these things were so”.
As you have drawn us to Moses might I take you to 2 Tim 3 which outlines the days we now live in. I guess you will go straight to verse 5 and say we are denying the power, but if you look deeper, you will see that this constant seeking for signs is feeding the unbelief in the church with people looking for something more that the cross and something other than “Christ and Him crucified”.
In verse 8 Paul reminds us that the socererors of Pharaohs court replicated Moses “miracles”, in fact they added to the plagues by bringing more frogs and more lice, so they could be said to have “done the Lords work”. But they were resisting God, is it not possible that Satan would so decieve us. Paul says these false teachers are corupt and reprobate concerning the faith.
This is an overhyped duplicity, a circus, all spun by the so called God channel. The decision to drop other programs to air a so called revival which just happens to co-incide with their programmed event for pentecost Sunday is so clever its a joke. Many sat back and watched the people of God destroyed by Toronto and Brownsville, and I for one feel that its high time Pastors and elders called this for what it is , and not couch it in fear of maybe being ” judgemental”. Pauls said dont even eat with such as these, we have heard enough and seen enough.
This is yet another deception and will lead the unwary to ruin.
Wow! did any of you see the Florida outpouring last night it was awesome. People on their faces, more testimonies….
Yet, there will always be the skeptics, yet if they fight off the doubt and unbelief Jesus just might change their lives forever
Your brother in the Lord
LM
LM, you said “…there will always be the skeptics”. With all due respect, have you considered why we are skeptics?
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being skeptical:
skeptic: A philosophical position in which people choose to critically examine whether the knowledge and perceptions that they have are actually true
There is a difference between being skeptical and mocking:
mocker: someone who jeers or mocks or treats something with contempt…
There are Christians that I don’t agree with…but I keep my opinions to myself and if they continue to bother me I keep praying about it, but that’s me. There is no way that I can
know what someone’s motives are….
I Cor 1:25, 27
This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength…Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.
To be skeptical and then express that it “may” be a work of the devil, the spirit of the antichrist is premature. To think it is one thing, to say it is another, especially on the internet…
I am just puzzled that there are some that are immediately negative AND saying critical comments. Fine, be negative, but keep it to yourself or at least talk in private among yourselves and debate it. Ask the Lord about it.
1 John says to test the spirits= scrutinize, examine carefully; isn’t that different than criticizing saying, well, this isn’t being done…or he said this…..I don’t see that in the Bible…
Do you think it’s possible that the adversary is somewhat responsible for sowing seeds of doubt so that when a move of God does come along we become like 2 Pet 3:3:
Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come….
God TV is loosing revenue, Bentley is not taking a penny and is paying $15,000 a day for the convention center to boot, testimonies are coming in from all over the world. Would the antichrist want people on their face before God? Would he want salvations to happen? Would he want people healed, delivered from demons. My wife and I are in the deliverance ministry, we know about demons. We have been to Lakeland and are going back. We have seen the people that have been on the platform off camera. We know they have been delivered. When you go in person, you also see “God stuff” that never makes it on camera.
So, all these people are deceived?
I am also a researcher, I can be a skeptic also, so my wife and I went to check it out. The ones that go want more of God, not religion. I and they have been touched by God in a tangible way.
But then again there will always be the doubters…
Libraryman, if we look at Mat 24:24 it says
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
So even if there are healings, testimonies etc, we can see from the above scripture that it doesnt mean it is from God. So there must be something else that we must use to distinguish if something is from God or not, do you agree?
Also, when you ‘check things out’ ,do you check it out by their experiences or by scripture?
Learn How to Become a False Prophet Performing False Miracles! Learn the Secrets of TODD BENTLEY`S *Operation Money Suck* Today!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p9Kv7XRaKw8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=6O0p4ZDnDoQ
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gZ-7beRITYM&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aHIyFmJTRsM&feature=related
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness
Alan,
Both. Scripture always has authority over experience. Just because I experience something does not mean it is of God. But experience does have a part or we wouldn’t have a testimony. Did you have a salvation “experience”? It may have been more or less dramatic than someone else, but if you are saved, at some time “things” were different. Have you “experienced” answered prayer?
Experience is Biblical: Eph 3:18-19 AMP
That you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints [God's devoted people, the experience of that love] what is the breadth and length and height and depth [of it]; [That you may really come] to know [practically, through experience for yourselves] the love of Christ, which far surpasses mere knowledge [without experience]; that you may be filled [through all your being] unto all the fullness of God [may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself]!
Is this crazy stuff going on the Gospel? Well what is meant by the Gospel? If an agreed upon definition is the glad tidings of salvation through Christ then what does salvation contain? Salvation from hell yes but it also means to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction: one (from injury or peril); to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health; to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue;
Are people being healed and delivered? It appears a lot are. Even Todd wants verification. There “ain’t” know way he wants to document this “thing” with the media without verification. Let’s face it, we are all skeptics to a point. That’s why 1 John 4:1 is written. Even God wants us to check things out. What we need to be careful of is not going over the line like some do saying this “thing” is false miracles and he is a false prophet. How do they know? Scriptures used to support this “opinion” mean zilch if they can be verified.
If I may, I would like to show you an answer to a question you haven’t asked-unusual manifestations by the people. i.e, the gyrations, falling down etc.
It has Scriptural precedence:
John 18:6
When Jesus said to them, I am He, they went backwards (drew back, lurched backward) and fell to the ground.
Acts 2:12-15
And all were beside themselves with amazement and were puzzled and bewildered, saying one to another, what can this mean? But others made a joke of it and derisively said, They are simply drunk and full of sweet [intoxicating] wine. But Peter, standing with the eleven, raised his voice and addressed them: You Jews and all you residents of Jerusalem, let this be [explained] to you so that you will know and understand; listen closely to what I have to say. For these men are not drunk, as you imagine, for it is [only] the third hour (about 9:00 a.m.) of the day; This is where the phrase “drunk in the Spirit” came from.
Some people don’t feel anything or very little. Some people don’t “fall down”. Some people are more “sensitive” to the Spirit than others. It ain’t right, it ain’t wrong it is what it is. People do not have to fall down or twitch or shake to receive from the Lord.
Manifestation is defined as a clear appearance such as “a manifestation of great emotion”; a manifest indication of the existence or presence or nature of some person or thing; “a manifestation of healing” which is why people are asked to do “something you couldn’t do before.
One thing that I know is that God is quite capable of messing up my theology. He told me one time, “this isn’t what this verse means, it’s what you think it means”…
I have never forgotten that
LM
I am glad that you said Scripture always has authority over experience. If you look at the first video posted by observer, http://youtube.com/watch?v=p9Kv7XRaKw8, many of those people had the same experiences that people at Todds meetings have, yet he was a false prophet. If Satan can make a person think he is saved or spiritual by just having these experiences, he is happy. Why do you think people will be suprised when Jesus says ‘depart from me’. It is because they were doing all the ‘christian stuff’ but there was no repentance and they were deceived by bad doctrine.That is my whole point. Please note that I am not saying that we as christians never have experiences but our experiences can be deceptive and that is why as you said they come second. The devil does signs and wonders as well so how do we discern what is of God and what is not? Satan masquerades himself as an angel of light and that is why doctrine is so important.
Regarding being slain in the spirit, please show me ONE place in the scriptures where Jesus or any of the disciples or apostles laid there hand on someone, and they were slain in the spirit Benny Hinn or Todd Bentley style. Have a look at http://www.carm.org/questions/slain_spirit.htm where your spiritual precedence of John 18:6 can be refuted. That is another example of eisigesis where you have a theology (ie slain in the spirit) and it is slammed into a text instead of reading the plain meaning of the text.
Again, there is no where in scripture where people are
drunk in the spirit. In fact in the scripture you quoted, Peter says they they are NOT drunk. He doesnt even say ‘For these men are not drunk, as you imagine, but they are drunl in the spirit’. Yet another case of eisigesis
Below is a explantion from another website
“The so-called drunkenness in the Spirit is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures. Those who promote the laughing revival grossly abuse the passage in Acts chapter 2 in an attempt to prove that the Apostles were drunk in the Spirit on the day of Pentecost. This is nonsense. Those who said the disciples were “full of new wine” were the mockers who wanted to debunk the miracle of tongues which was occurring (Acts 2:13). The mockers did not say the disciples were drunken because they were staggering about and slurred in speech and falling to the ground, but because of the many languages which were used to preach the Gospel that day and because they wanted to slander the apostles. In his reply to these mockers, PETER PLAINLY SAID THEY WERE NOT DRUNKEN (Acts 2:15). In Ephesians 5:18 Paul CONTRASTS drunkenness with the filling of the Spirit. The drunk is not in control of himself but is under the power of a foreign substance. In contrast, the Spirit-filled Christian is entirely in control of himself under the direction of the Holy Spirit. There is absolutely no case in the New Testament of the Lord Jesus Christ or the Apostles or early Christians staggering about in a drunken stupor, unable to attend to necessary duties, as those in the laughing revival are experiencing. THE CHRISTIAN IS COMMANDED TO BE SOBER AT ALL TIMES (1 Thess. 5:6,8; 1 Tim. 3:2,11; Titus 1:8; 2:2,4,6; 1 Pet. 1:13; 4:7; 5:8). If for no other reason, I would reject the laughing revival on this basis alone. “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour” (1 Peter 5:8).
I think the problem that we have is how you interpret scripture. This is the reason I gave you some basic principles at http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/ten-rules-of-biblical-interpretation because if it is wrongly divided and you do not know it, you are a prime candidate for deception
LM, I believe Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal…and Paul mocked the Judaizers - false prophets/teachers with a false message. By the way, I’m from a Pentecostal backrground - Dad’s a pastor and is even on the way to Florida as we speak. I don’t speak as one looking outside, but as one who was once in and got pulled out by God’s sovereign grace.
Returning my original point, mockery is not the M.O. I’d like to use, but it is Biblical - esp. when we are dealing with a false prophet such as Bentley
Alan,
There is one basic difference between you and I. I know and have experienced God and it appears that you have a ways to go…..
LM
Yes that comment comes across as elitist, but then I knew what to expect here before I started to post. It’s been fun and sad at the same time. May the Lord show up greatly in your life and blows the sides off your box
I would also like to know which scripture you will use to defend Todd to say that ‘as a powerful prophetic spirit’ comes on believers they can begin ‘running around barking like a dog or squawking like a chicken’. See http://www.etpv.org/2003/angho.html
I really would like to know
to everyone who calls upon there GOD. JESUS .
I have read and understood both sides of this particular argument. This is the first time i have ever posted and i am not particularly computer literate.i am just writing to give you a small piece of my testimony.so please forgive me for the spelling mistakes.
i have been saved for 7 years praise JESUS.Ican confidently say that being a lover of JESUS i am ever aware of being deceived.(dont judge or stone me yet).after being gloriosly saved and then baptised in theHOLY SPIRIT. i listened to family members who were pentecostal like myself,and i can honestly say that they confused me more and more especially about certain preachers and toronto and brownsville.At this point i was about to give up but i decided to find out for myself and took a trip to toronto church.This is were i first heard of todd.GOD touched me and i found that what my family members were criticising and mocking was actually happening to me a nobody from northern ireland.when i came home i had an even greatar love for JESUS and theWORD OF GOD.Surely this is the fruit in my life.I ask you not to judge yet but see what the fruit of this outpouring is.Surely satan is not going to glorify JESUS and get people truly saved.Do we christians need to again examine what john the baptist did when he found himself in jail and listen to the saviours reply.
yours in JESUS
nigel
p.s i truly believe that this is of GOD .HE is the one being glorified and if in doubt ask JESUS.(luke ch 11 v11-13)
JESUS CHRIST IS LORD !
Nigel, not to take anything away from your experiences but as it has been said before, scripture always trumps experience. Just because a person feels closer to God after an experience does not mean that the actual person is preaching sound doctrine. The only way we can tell if a person is preaching sound doctrine is to hold their teachings up to the light of God’s word. If it is in violation of God’s word, then you have an obligation to reject what that person is saying, no matter what experiences you are feeling. The same goes for me. If anything I say contradicts scripture, then reject what I am saying too. Jesus will NEVER contradict his word. I hope you understand.
I would be interested to know how God touched you or what exactly was the thing that convinced you that it was God?
Thanks for visiting by the way
Alan
Hey Nigel,
thanks for the input. It was getting lonely over here on “enemy lines”. I may or may not post after this one. Maybe I will just be an observer…..whatever the Lord wants me to do. Usually I don’t post on sites like this one because no one usually changes their views and the possibility of strife increasing is always there.
You and I went to similar events, suspending judgment and came away changed. No one is going to convince us otherwise. To be told that somehow we are deceived and we don’t know what we are talking about come across as somewhat condescending. Like we’re not used to that.
It has been said that Scripture has authority over experience. We know that. What seems to be coming across here though is that experience has no place at all only Scripture. As we know, there will be times that Scripture does not explicitly state whatever……For example, we talk about the rapture but the word is not in Scripture.
What is really the most important is love needs to be always in operation. If it is not, we are like a clanging cymbal. There seems to be a lot of clanging going on at times.
Phariseeism is always going to happen. Jesus always spoke the truth to these religious folk. He kept speaking the truth in love. Of course, it only got Him killed.
But, if Nicodemus and I were changed there will be always hope for others
Let the stones fly….I have my helmet on
Nice talking with you Nigel
LM
You guys have no idea how much of God you are missing out on. I used to be a dry church pastor. We must look to the Bible to see that Jesus said, ‘by their fruit you will know them.’ Every night hundreds of people are getting saved at the Florida Revival. Question - When is the last time any of us led any one to Christ?
God continue to bless you and work through you Todd.
I have every idea of how much of ‘God’ I am missing as this is nothing new and I have been to these type of meetings before
I will repeat my previous comment in regards to ‘by their fruit you will know them.’
“I’m glad you mentioned that scripture so lets look at it in context shall we
Matthew 7
15 “BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
How do you know what their fruit is? By their doctrine? How do you know their doctrine? By lining it up with scripture like the Bereans (Acts 17:11) and not just swallowing it up because the name of Jesus is mentioned”
Romans 16:17 makes it very clear
Now I beseech you, brethren, MARK THEM which cause divisions and offences CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE which ye have learned; and AVOID THEM.
What if the doctrine you have learned is wrong! And now you are avoiding the real thing and therefore God?
You are 100% right. If the doctrine that I have learned is wrong, I would like someone (or yourself) to show me FROM SCRIPTURE.
This is the reason I keep stressing that we should have some basic rules of how to interpret the bible. Thats why I posted the link http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/ten-rules-of-biblical-interpretation
I believe that will save a lot of people from being deceived. I keep stressing that just because a person mentions the name of Jesus and throws scriptures out there (normally twisted or out of context), does not mean that it is from God.
Not to cause division (although the Gospel is offensive, nonetheless), but we all know based on the Holy Scriptures that Jesus explicitly told HIS disciples (which include us) “…many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many (Matthew 24:5).”
Since we know that without the shadow of a doubt that Satan will deceive many leading up the to the time of the LORD’s glorious return, isn’t it possible that it is the folks flocking to this ‘outpouring’ are the ones Christ Jesus was speaking of?
Christ Jesus also added in Matthew 24:
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. … 26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.”
I pose this question to you all defending these signs and wonders at this ‘revival’: How do you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you brothers and sisters of the faith are not one of these who have been deceived as our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ said would be by “great signs and wonders” shown by “false christs and false prophets”?
And, Todd, you wrote: “You guys have no idea how much of God you are missing out on. I used to be a dry church pastor.”
Who was responsible for you being a ‘dry church pastor’ and what made it so dry? Also, what is it that we who resist these works are ‘missing out on?’ — Am I missing out on growing closer to the LORD…or am I missing out on some type of experience? For I don’t seek experiences, Todd, I seek to fulfill the FATHER’s will in helping to teach the True Gospel. I do not seek angels. I seek Christ. I do not seek miracles or visions. I seek to obey the FATHER’s will.
Aren’t any of you concerned that these men are elevating themselves to Christ Jesus’ place, which is a sin. Pretty soon they will be claiming to be Jesus or to know where he is and many of us will go in droves…eager to see with our eyes and hear with our ears… instead of having faith in our invisible GOD.
Y’know Bros. Alan and LaVrai, I can’t help but notice that there is no teaching of any form coming out of this “revival”. It’s really good to keep those ten rules of hermeneutics in rotation, since all someone needs to do is look at the message coming out of Bentley’s mouth and see how many of these rules he observes/breaks.
In response to Bob, if I have gotten it wrong, then please don’t point me to an experience which with time will fade away [1 Cor 13:8-10] - please point me to the Bible, the Word of God which will never pass away [Isaiah 40:6-8; 1 Peter 1:22-25]. I left all that, because it was so fleeting.
guys who are we to judge, all you lot are doing is putting yourself in GODS chair and judgeing and making up your own minds what is off GOD or not, you need to seek GOD before you make up your minds, Yes the preachers on GOD tv make mistakes and say the wrong things, there own greed and wrong doings come up, but so do mine and so do yours, only jesus was perfect and you need to look pass the human mistakes and look at the fruit, healings miracles and most off all people being saved………
Nathan, in regards to judging, please watch the video at http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/judge-not/
Everybody is going on about healing miracles and the fruit but what about their doctrine. I dont hear many of the defenders of Todd talking about that
As I was thinking about most of the posts here and the preoccupation with labels such as false prophet, false miracles, this is being said, this isn’t being said and “stuff” being thrown around, I was wondering what the core issue is here. I no sooner had asked myself this question when the Lord told me it was fear. The fear of being deceived. This fear is causing unbelief.
Fear is not from God. 2 Tim 1:7 “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”
Since fear is not of God then it must be the enemy. However, we can command fear to leave because we have been given authority and power over the enemy
(Luke 10:19 AMP).
Jude 24 says that Jesus is “able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy”.
When I have found myself in situations that I don’t understand I ask the Lord to show me what is going on. I trust Him to keep me safe as I examine what is happening.
Without fear and unbelief being dealt with, it is nearly impossible for folks to move on into God. Unbelief also hindered people in Jesus day to receive the miracles that Jesus could do while He was here (Mark 6).
We have been sent out by Jesus to continue what He did:
“And as you go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand! Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely (without pay) you have received, freely (without charge) give.”
Without fear and unbelief “pushed out of the way”and replaced with a teachable spirit (by asking and receiving it from the Lord), any attempt to “show you where the Bible says that” or answer any of the questions that some have to their satisfaction will be fruitless and quite frankly a waste of everyones time.
An open and cordial debate is one thing, arguing is another.
Like Jesus said, “And wherever they do not receive and accept and welcome you, when you leave that (blog) shake off [even] the dust from your feet…”
LM
Hey, Im not a christain but im trying to be 1
its hard for me
cos my freinds aren’t christains
any advice?
Thanks
\_ Rick
You Should Not belive in your freinds, but above, make new freinds, pray on youre bed or even your floor if u want, remember, its up 2 u, People may not like christains, others do but 1 thing for sure i do like christans
\_ Michael
Tip: Dont listen to bullies, its whats inside you!
I dont fear being deceive at all. Why should I? I only have something to fear if I do not have the correct instructions. We have the correct instructions through scripture (yes I know I sound like a broken record) but it seems as if you do not have a high view of sound doctrine. This is not about me ‘being right’ or winning an argument but about us seeing what the bible says on a matter and submitting to it
Rick, read http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/a-message-to-non-christians
You can also email me at alanhiggins (at) hotmail.com
In fact, LM, for now lets put all the experiential stuff aside and let look at doctrine shall we? Could you please answer comment 32
Well, Bro. Alan, it is official - whatever Bentley has got, he’s somehow passed it onto my Dad who got back sometime this morning
I got home this afternoon around 2pm from college. From that time until now, he’s been up in his and my mum’s bedroom, laughing hysterically. I like the occasional afternoon nap every now and again, but I’m legitimately scared to sleep when he’s in a state like this. He’s at work, but Bro. Alan, to be honest, I’m really worried for him. I don’t know with what power Bentley is doing what he is - whatever he is using, I’m not comfortable with it, both from a Biblical and an experiential perspective
Oh no. That doesnt sound good at all. I cant lie, I did laugh at your comment ‘From that time until now, he’s been up in his and my mum’s bedroom, laughing hysterically’. Forgive me as there is the serious side to this. I am doing separate post on these type of teachers tomorrow because if nothing is said, it could become epidemic and become the church norm
Oh no. That doesnt sound good at all. I cant lie, I did laugh at your comment ‘From that time until now, he’s been up in his and my mum’s bedroom, laughing hysterically’. Forgive me as there is the serious side to this. I am doing separate post on these type of teachers tomorrow because if nothing is said, it could become epidemic and become the church norm
I don’t blame you - it is rather amusing until you remember the root of it all. I wonder if he’s doing this on the night shift at work now…
Looking forward to your post Bro. Alan
If anyone belives this website, this website is the antichrist, becuase the words miss the lips in the clips.
Jesus Jesus Jesus, plus God tv uses the blessed name Jesus.
hiya everyone
greetings from an unusually sunny ireland
sorry alan i havent replied to your question.
libraryman hiya(my spelling can be awfull)
dear alan may the LORD JESUS bless you mightily.you asked what experiences i had.this is all i will say,that the very thing that i didnt want to do i was doing.you mentioned people barking like dogs and stuff.can i say that these things had been mentioned to me.this is grossly exagerated and for people acting like chickens i can see wher this description has come from.most opposition according to reliable sources came from britain and less than 0.2% percent of people acted like this.i wonder if you have read the history of revivals from the manuscripts of george whitfield.two brothers who founded the methodist church charles and john weselywho held the same views but then changed there minds after seeing the fruit in peoples lives and when they found themselves doing the same.GOD is AWESOME ,hypothetically speaking,if you wher employed by a bank to spot counterfit bank notes would you study the false to spot the true or would you be so familiar with the true that the false would stick out like a swollen thumb.JESUS said that he came togive life and that more abundatly.matt7v1.the law of sowing and reaping applies in all GODS KINGDOM rememker who is the king of this domain JESUS.if we pigeonhole people by how we see them(judging them)then thats all we will ever see in them.GOD is not the author of confusion.when i read certain posts i can feel the enemy trying to sow seeds of doubt but having known in whom i have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep me i praise GOD FOR THE VICTORY OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST MY SAVIOUR AND MY REDEMTION IN HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD.im not knocking you but have you ever observed a demon manifesting .they manifest whilst people are praisig GOD.they go crazy at the mention of the NAME OF JESUS AND THE POWER OF HIS BLOOD.let me finish with this, satan doesnt want the gospel preached ,the deaf to hear,the lame to walk,he wants to kill to steal and to destroy.as an nonchelant christian thinking of giving up,GOD touched me as i mentioned before,now i am at this time wearing a blue t-shirt,please do not try to convince me its red.
Thanks for your reply Nigel and for being gracious in your reply. I think your quote “f you wher employed by a bank to spot counterfit bank notes would you study the false to spot the true or would you be so familiar with the true that the false would stick out like a swollen thumb” sums it all up. In order to fully know the truth, we have to have scripture and SCRIPTURE ALONE as the final authority and NOT experiences. Yes we can learn from men of the past but it should never be the final authority. There is nothing wrong with judging. (See http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/judge-not/) In fact, in order to tell a person that they are judging, that person has made a judgment to come to that conclusion. If Satan masquerades himself as a angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)and false prophets will do signs and wonders to deceive, then he can make the deaf to hear and lame to walk. I cannot convince you of anything but all I ask is that you do not let your experiences blind you to sound doctrine. I have had ‘experiences’ in the past and when I look back now, I can say that God was not in it and it was either my flesh or the devil. If you get a chnace, look at the people who have had experinces at http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/what-does-the-bible-say-about-benny-hinn/
God bless you
Alan
dear alan
may i congratulate you on this site.i have read a few other colums or articles and agree completely.i think we are singing off the same hymn sheet but maybe a different tune .GOD be praised ,i agreed with your article on the church mafia.in this country ,being irish we are naturally wary and having received superb teaching from ny spiritual fathers this would not be tolerated in this small country.however we have enough problems i assume you are aware of these.i must complement you on your sincerity.others i feel ,who are of the
same opinion as myself concerning what is happening in florida are being a little condescending and i apologize sincerly and ask you to forgive me if i have come across like this or offended you inany way.
let me also say that my friends are going, however as my wife is due with a child today i feel this would be inapropriate.i agree with you and experience will never overtake the infalable WORD OF GOD .with this in mind i will not be arguing with you anymore concerning this as this does not edify.i bless you in the name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST and although we may disagree concerning the florida outpouring and various other things ,the foundational truth of christianity we both agree on(having read your statement of faith) yours in CHRIST nigel
Thankyou for your comments and like you said, as long as we can agree on the foundations, we can agree to disagree. I pray that you wife has a safe delivery and may God bless you and your family
Your brother in Christ
Alan
Alan,can you tell us where in scripture it says scripture alone,surely Paul teaches to the contrary
Alan ,apologies ,I am referring to
1 Cor 11v2
2Tim 1v13-14
2thes 2v15
2Tim v1-2
You should also check out
2 John v12
2 peter1 v2o-21
God Bless You all
Danny, I have read those scriptures and cannot se a contradiction. Can you expand on what you mean? Paul said in 2 Timothy 3:16-17
ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Paul is clearly stating that there are oral instructions as well as a written instructions to believers.Scripture is a tool to equip us as believers, but it is not the only one, you must read the scriptures in their totality,John ch 20 tells us that not all that Jesus did or said was written down,in fact Jesus ,although he could write, never told anybody to write down anything.What did the early Christian church do between 30 AD and the writing down of the first gospel circa 70 AD.
Paul is telling Timothy Keep as your pattern the sound teachings that you have HEARD from me.
can you show me anywhere in scripture where it says scripture alone,I know that you wont find it,because it isn’t there.
There is no explicit verse that says ’scripture alone’ but as you said, we do have to read the scriptures in their totality. If you read 2 Peter 3:15-16, Peter affirms what Paul says
“and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, AS THEY DO ALSO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURES.
Peter does not say that we can believe Pauls words over scripture. If you look at Acts 17:11, the Bereans checked out scripture first to see if what Paul said was true. If they could just go by Paul’s words alone, why would they need to check the scriptures. So the things that Timothy heard from Paul were not contrary to scripture. Remember it was Paul who wrote to Timothy “ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
It was Paul who wrote to Timothy “Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH”
All scripture is given by God, but nowhere in scripture does it say that scripture alone is the only thing that is profitable,in fact the idea of scripture alone is unscriptural,Paul says in I cor ch 11 Take me as your pattern as I take Christ for mine,which is a do as I do instruction,he then congratulates the Corinthians for MAINTAINING THE TRADITIONS,that he had passed on to them.The second letter to the thessalonians states ” stand firm ,then brothers,and KEEP THE TRADITIONS THAT WE TAUGHT YOU, WHETHER BY WORD OF MOUTH OR BY LETTER”