Your analogies unfortunately have holes in them. Instead of the Judge paying for your sins you have a number of different people telling you how to make amends, many claiming to be the judge.

Some tell you to act with truthfulness, avoiding harm and nobility. They say right from the word go that it will not be easy, it will take time to improve.

One says “sign this bit of paper to say that I am the judge and you can just go out and do what you want. Commit the crime over and over again, you will be forgiven. If you follow one of those saying that you must improve yourself and your behaviour, on the other hand, I will torture you to death nomatter how good you are”. If he also claims to be a fair, compassionate and forgiving judge then you might think that this is not the truth.

As for the doctor, again you have many doctors, all claiming to be the expert with the one cure. Actually, some agree with eachother and say that the way to a cure involves not just medicine but trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle. One doctor says “just take my patent cure, do nothing else. Go back to eating chips and drinking beer if you like, one swig of my cure and you are sorted”.

Its a straightforward situation in reality.

Chris let me give you a better analogy as your analogy communicates why you have a misunderstanding of the christian gospel because a missing ingredient you are missing is justice.Check out http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/a-message-to-non-christians

You are in a courtroom and you have committed some offences which you are guilty of and you have to pay a fine that you cannot afford. Imagine if the judge came down from the bench and paid the fine for you, even though the judge was innocent. Would you not be grateful to that judge for paying that fine for you and STOP or would you leave the courtroom and commit the same offences again? If you commited those same offences, should you not be punished?

Or how about you going to the professional and well respected doctor who sees that you have a terminal disease but there is ONE CURE. Would you try and tell the doctor what he should do and give him advice or would you yourself. The book of John is a good place to start
listen to him BECAUSE HE KNOWS BEST.

You may think you know best, but there is only ONE CURE for the terminal disease that we all have called sin and that cure is through JESUS CHRIST. Now you dont have to take the cure and you may think that you know best, but please know that there will be a consequence of rejecting the ‘cure’.

The choice is yours.

Perhaps you should not listen so much and argue with Alan. Pick up the Holy Bible in plain English and dedicate the time to reading it…not necessarily as a religious text… but just read it out of curiosity. Put your pre-judgments aside and read it with a ‘blank slate’ — as you would if you were picking up any other book you just want to know about.

Alan, nor I or anyone else can ever convince you to cast aside your doubts. Only GOD can do that. We can only offer you our own testimonies. No matter what we say, it just won’t vibe with you because we’re operating from two different standpoints.

Pick up the Bible, read it and throw out some questions if they come up, which they most definitely will. I’m sure Alan won’t mind offering a response or directing you to a source that can answer your questions.

But if you’re not even ready to read the Holy Bible, then… well…I don’t suppose this debate will ever go anywhere.

And might I add, understanding can only come about by the grace of GOD… so you will come to a point where you cannot lean on your own understanding.

Maybe you could justify your actions by saying that the rat is dirty and spreads disease and is vermin that deserves to be tortured to death. But you are so good and gracious that you will spare the rat if it picks the right path. You might put some signs in the maze that some rats will recognise, but you leave other signs pointing the wrong way even though you know that many have taken the wrong path already and been you have tortured them to death.

If is does not sound very good and gracious and good then you will see the problem I have with your view of God and salvation.
Chris

In Romans 3:23 It says we have ALL sinned and fallen short of the glory of God meaning that as you said we should ALL be punished and ALL go to hell

So you are right. None of us deserve anything from God but Jesus was so gracious to us and so loving that he was willing to take the punishment WE deserve.

Thanks for the reply. I checked out the link and found that I am currently heading for hell, (though I think everyone who answered honestly would come up with the same result).

Thanks for the video, it is a kindness on your part. The problem I have is that there are so many Gods all prescribing different means of attaining salvation, no reason for any one of them to be more likely than another, and even the possibility that none of them are actually true. Therefore, I’m more comfortable with living a good life on my own terms and seeing where that gets me. I’m not doing good things just to get myself into heaven, but just because I’d rather make people happy than make people sad.

If there is a God and she sends me to hell for not worshipping her, then fine. She isn’t someone deserving of my worship if she’s so vain and petty.

Anyway, thanks for your time and for letting me post, and have a lovely day,

Lucy

Now suppose (excuse the pun) all those ’supposes’ were all false, then fair enough. Its no big deal. But if they are actually facts, then you will be in big trouble when you stand before God.

The question is not if you are a good person by your standard but are you a good person by God’s standard? Check out http://www.needgod.com to find out. The same goes for you Chris. There is none righteous and that includes me. God can forgive you but on his terms and not yours

Why then would God, if he wishes to have us over, give us a muddled message and unclear directions? As it is Jesus himself declared “I am the way, the truth and the life and no-one comes to the Father (God) except through me” (John 14). Well, I personally was releaved to receive that invitation and would encourage others to check out the invite too. The good news is that you don’t have to be Holy to be invited. Jesus reached out to the sinners.

God bless you all, Paul