The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 5 – The Prosperity Gospel

Posted: December 9, 2007 in False Doctrine, False Teachers
Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

The prosperity gospel is the premise that if you are a child of God, you should expect to be healthy and wealthy and should not expect anything less. I will confess that at one point, I was sucked into this type of preaching and teaching. Then as time went by, I got disillusioned when things didnt seem to be happening as they should be according to what I heard. I became like the Berean church in Acts 17:11 and examined the scripture for myself. I took a snapshot of the most prominent Christian in the new testament, Paul the apostle, and compared his life to what we hear today. I will let Paul explain from his own lips how his life was.

2 Corinthians 11:22-33

22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they ministers of Christ?—I speak as a fool—I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?
30 If I must boast, I will boast in the things which concern my infirmity. 31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 32 In Damascus the governor, under Aretas the king, was guarding the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desiring to arrest me; 33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall, and escaped from his hands.

Timothy makes it clear that “all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.” (2 Timothy 3:12)

Can you see how perverted the gospel message is? The bible warns us about these teachers

1 Timothy 6:3-10

3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. 9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

2 Peter 2: 3

And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

This is the very reason why Jesus was angry in the temple (Matthew 21:23-13) Because they were merchandising in the temple and it is no different than what is happening today. We just do it in a more sophisticated way via tele-evangelists, the internet, selling various CDs, tapes and DVDs. Below is an example. I dont know if to laugh or cry.

By the way, if anyone can find the the scripture where you need to buy miracle spring water or a handkerchief to get a miracle, please can you let me know as I would like to buy a new car. I have been searching the bible for ages, but cannot find it.

This preacher is not very happy with these prosperity preachers. Listen to what he has to say

Prosperity Pimps Part 1

Prosperity Pimps Part 2

Prosperity Pimps Part3

John Piper is not happy about it neither

The sad thing about it is so many people follow and defend these preachers and because it is not the gospel of Jesus Christ, many people will have a Christ-less eternity as a result. I pray that like myself, peoples eyes will be opened to the truth of scripture and will turn away from these vipers.

Remember to pray for these teachers.

To Be Continued…

Related posts:

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 1 – A Form of godliness

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 2 – Scripture Twisting

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 3 – The abuse of biblical numerlogy

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 4 – Man Centered Theology

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers (Interlude) – My reason for doing this

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 6 – Denial that Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 7 – Signs and Wonders

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 8 – Deconstruction

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 9 – Giving False Hope

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 10 – The misuse of old testament scriptures

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 11 – The Gospel of Inclusion

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers  – The Conclusion

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Comments
  1. Daniel says:

    what bothers me about these ministries is that some of them actually have missions and send missionaries around the world. rather than saving souls they are shutting heaven’s gate to the poor and oppressed.

  2. blackreformingkid says:

    I agree with you Daniel, these guys, having made their money in the West, are now moving their focus on Africa. Fred Price has missions all over my native Ghana, as does Oral Roberts. Just like Paul said, their message will spread like cancer. But thank the Lord for his Truth

  3. Metaphyzxx says:

    I suppose this is where my perspective differs from yours, though I have a feeling it only does on the surface.

    I don’t actually subscribe to prosperity preaching, as in the long run, it’s just another chase after something that won’t bring fulfillment. In the end a paper chase is still a paperchase, regardless of how well it’s dressed up.

    At the same time, I can’t see in the Word where there is an issue with having wealth, provided that the wealth is possesed with purpose… basically having it is not the end but a means. And that’s why I guess maybe we’re somewhat more harmonious than it’s made to seem. I do believe that the Love of Money is the root of all kinds of evil, but money itself is just the press that squeezes the believer.

  4. Alan Higgins says:

    I agree with you Metaphyzxx. There is nothing at all wrong with having wealth. But it is the emphasis on getting wealth and the emphasis on material things that is dangerous. As John Piper, Jesus said, “How difficult it will be for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God!”, then why would these preachers want to develop a ministry focus that makes it harder for people to enter heaven?

  5. STEVEM says:

    Alan my good friend. See the problem with you is that you do the very thing you accuse these ministers of twisting their positions to sought your own purposes

    The prosperity Gospel doesnt preach health and wealth for health and wealth’s sake it preaches it for the purpose of the work of God A point which you deliberately left out .That is precisely why Fred Price and Oral Roberts have missionaries all over Ghana as one poster STRANGELY laments. I am not sure why having missionaries in Ghana establishing hospitals and schools and clean drinking water projects would be a bad thing but you anti-prosperity types do sufer from cognitive dissonance 🙂

    You haveleft out half of thetruth in an effort to make these ministries look bad and this amounts to little more than intellectual dishonesty something you anti-proserity types are known for

    You said you followed prosperity preaching for many years and then you cite Timothy’s satement about persecution . I say you clearly havent listened to these minitries because pretty much all of them teach that prosperity brings persecutiion so yours is a classic case of knocking down A strawman whom you yourself erected.

    Every prosperity believer knows that there are persecutions to overcome, faith battles to be fought, seasons of plenty and seasons of abasesments, seasons of sowing and sowing to reaping so I submit to you that you really have no Clue on the topic or the ministries you criticize

    My advice to you, take time off this ill adviised blog of yours, prayerfully ask God to open your eyes and help you to be a true Berean to teach you to righfully divide the scriptures. Repent for slandering Good men and women and ask God to show you how to make good use of your time!

    And remember Psalm 103

    2Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all His benefits–
    3who forgiveth all thine iniquities, who healeth all thy diseases, 4who redeemeth thy life from destruction, who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies,
    5who satisfieth thy mouth with good things, so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle’s.

    As well as

    Psalm 118

    25Save now, I beseech thee, O LORD: O LORD, I beseech thee, send now prosperity.

    As for me and my house we will choose the blessings of the Lord Financial and Otherwise.

    • Puddin says:

      Couldnt disagree more. The gospel of Christ is about one thing THE CROSS. It is not about getting rich. I attended a Rhema church for 2 years and NOT ONCE did they preach repentance, judgment, or hell. Not once! This is New Life Church of Cary NC.

      The people that go to these Word of Faith churches are deceived, the majority of which are not saved. Why? Because a new life that focuses on holiness is absent from Word of Faith doctrine. The Word doesnt say ‘without riches no man will see the Lord’. Jesus said how hard it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The Word says without holiness no man may see the Lord.
      that holiness is NOT the prosperity version of the salvation message which is get saved, plant a seed of faith, and God will give you a bunch of money for having ‘faith’. Its a lie from the pit.
      I feel very bad for those remaining in such deception. But they have faith that their giving and money will save them aside from a holy walk with God and full dependence on only Christs finish work on the Cross to save.

  6. Alan Higgins says:

    You say that “The prosperity Gospel doesnt preach health and wealth for health and wealth’s sake it preaches it for the purpose of the work of God”. I know that is what SOME of them preach but most of them firstly do not preach this or if they do they do not put a stong emphasis on this. Secondly, if we look at the new testament apostles, do you see them preach this same message or is it something differently. Like I said, if you took a snapshot of the most prominent Christian in the new testament, does Paul preach this same message? Or any new testament apostle for that reason? Do they preach the same health and wealth prosperity message that you are talking about? Do you hear Paul saying that you will not have peace if you dont have money (as Creflo Dollar states)?

    “That is precisely why Fred Price and Oral Roberts have missionaries all over Ghana as one poster STRANGELY laments. I am not sure why having missionaries in Ghana establishing hospitals and schools and clean drinking water projects would be a bad thing”

    Steve doing good works does not mean that what they are preaching is truth. That is called pragmatism where you are basically saying that the ends justifies the means. Please see my post on this at https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/the-problem-with-pragmatism/

    Now does God heal and bless people financially today? I believe he does but these material blessings should never be our emphasis

    Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. (Col 3:2)

    Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Mat 6:19-21)

  7. Alan Higgins says:

    Also I would ask, if you look at those being persecuted for Christ (look at my ‘The Persecuted Church’ category), could that same message be preached to those same people who are being tortured for their faith? Are they less godly because they dont have what we in the west call prosperity? If that message cannot be preached there, then it is NOT the gospel

  8. STEVEM says:

    Alan my good friend

    Those of us who regularly follow these ministres as oppose dto you critics simply looking for something to criticize know fully well that the prosperity is pimarily for the work of the kingdom and the material benefits we may get from it are merely secondary. I have known that from day one. It’s you critic who are always looking for error and fault that continue to delude yourselves into believeing otherwise

    Here is what Fred Price has to say about the matter from his book the purpose of prosperity

    http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/wedigmontana/Prosperity.html


    3. Prosperity is a result (III John 2)
    Prosperity is not an end in itself, but the result of a life dedicated to service to God.

    It’s clear that GOD wishes that his children prosper. How can someone dare to deny this? However, prosperity shouldn’t be an end in itself, but the result of a quality of life, devotion, dedication and action that corresponds with the Word of GOD. In this verse, the word “prosperous” (Greek, euodoo) literally means “to help get under way” or “to have success in achieving”. It clearly implies that divine prosperity isn’t a momentary or passing phenomenon, but rather a continual and progressive state of good success, of well-being. It’s applied to all areas of our life: spiritual, physical, emotional and material. However, GOD doesn’t wish us to place undue emphasis on any of these spheres. An equilibrium is maintained.

    5. Things are to be used, not to be loved (Mark 10:17-27)
    God isn’t opposed to his people owning things, but to these things dominating his people.

    GOD is not opposed to Christian owning material things. However, he is opposed to the material things “possessing” or dominating Christians. In this passage, the young rich man had kept the Law all of his life, but his riches dominated him; he wasn’t able to renounce material things, not even to the end of obtaining eternal life.There is no reason to doubt that if he had been prepared to dispense with those things, Jesus would have said that he could keep them. This episode constitutes a sad example of what can happen when people put their trust in material goods, instead of depositing it in GOD, who gave them.

    There you have Dr Price in his own words and these are principles that I ws taught from day one by all the preachers you attack. As Jesus said be careful how you hear. If You are looking for error all you’ll see is error and I see you have already fallen into that ungodly trap.

    I find it amuising that you are ready to dismiss Fred Price work in Ghana as merely doing “good works”. This is a classic phariseeical example of no amount of evidence being sufficient . First you accuse these ministres of corruplty enriching themselves and when we prove to you otherwise you make it a case of good works and end not justifying means .

    Didnt James say that your faith will be seen by your good WORKS? Didnt Jesus say that the WORKS he did we would do so also? Didnt Jesus say that by our WORK we would be known ? Here you have ministries doing works in countries remote from them in the name of the great commision yet all you have to say is that the end doesnt justify the means ? This is classic Phariseeism and Little else and again I advise that you rethink this ill advosed blog of yours and repent for ctrical phariseeism and slander

  9. STEVEM says:

    Alan said


    Also I would ask, if you look at those being persecuted for Christ (look at my ‘The Persecuted Church’ category), could that same message be preached to those same people who are being tortured for their faith? Are they less godly because they dont have what we in the west call prosperity? If that message cannot be preached there, then it is NOT the gospel

    Slandering people and constantly criticizing and attacking them as you do these ministries is also a form of persecution my good friend

  10. Alan Higgins says:

    I know a lot about what Fred Price teaches. I used to follow his teaching a lot and I read his ‘How Faith Works’ book so I am not naive or blinded. In his book he went on about him driving a rolls royce and how he had material things as ‘proof’ of his blessings. And by being rich, he is following Jesus steps. That flies in the face of those who are being persecuted in places like China for example. So if they do not have riches, does that mean that they are not following Jesus steps? Our following Jesus should not be marked by being rich but by suffering for him.

    If someone has repented and put their trust in Christ, then they will do good works (as you stated in James) but just because someone is doing good works does not necessarily mean that they have repented and put their trust in Christ. there is a difference so do not confuse the two. You have mentioned so many points via your comments and via Fred Price’s link and to be honest, it will take to long to go into each one.

    If you read the whole of Galatians 3, you will see that the blessing of Abraham is not material stuff and getting houses and cars and money but in the context it is justification by faith

    Re 3 John 2, John is not teaching a doctrine to promote health and wealth but this was a general greeting. Our version really of ‘I hope you are doing well’

    Please show me a passage of scripture where the new testament apostles preached the health and wealth prosperity message and I dont mean implicit but i mean explicit passages

  11. STEVEM says:

    My good friend Galatians 3:16 uses the word “promises” in the plural sense .


    16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    Abrahams’s promises were not just limited to “Justification”as you claim, They encompassed the material and the spiritual hence the use of the plural word “promises”.

    In any case I dont want have a theological debate with you . My singular purpose is to show that you mischaracterize these ministries and WILLFULLY choose to ignore anything about them that goes contrary to your own self invented delusions about them .

    You sit there in the UK an go on and on about the persecuted church in China as if your poverty helps the persecuted Church in any way. Meanwhile the ministries you criticize are sending bibles and supporting the persecuted churches every way they can. Apparently you are unaware that many of these ministries smuggle bibles into China and other countries . Tell me exactly how much material help do you offer the people in China and other countries?

    The Likes of Billy Brimm whom is closely associated with the Copelands were smuggling bibles into the Soviet Union probably before you became Christian .

    http://billyebrimsblog.blogspot.com/2007_08_01_archive.html

    She also taught selected classes at Rhema Bible Training Center.
    In 1980 Billye Brim resigned from KHM to answer the call to travel and minister full time.
    In August 1980 she began what proved to be repeated trips to the Soviet Union where she witnessed the dramatic changes there. The ministry behind the Iron Curtain began with actually running from the KGB.
    Ministry teams took in past hostile borders, ink to the underground press, Bibles, books, and engaged in teaching, preaching, and ministry. Later she has witnessed the relative freedom to preach the Gospel behind the former Iron Curtain and has been part of organized ministry in the CIS.
    Billye Brim’s life has been especially blessed and enriched by close association with people wholly given to God, particularly in prayer, who were a part of the move of the Holy Spirit in the earlier part of this century. Some of those are: Elsie Ford, Reverend and Mrs. J.R. Goodwin, Dr. Kenneth E. and Oretha Hagin, Phillip and Fern Halverson, Dr. Frank and Irene Lindquist, Carrie Pickard, Wilford and Gertrude (Lake) Reidt, Carl and Grace Roos, Rachel Teafatiller, Jeannie Wilkerson. Billye Brim considers these, among others, to be her mentors.

    Apparently you are unaware that the Copelands and TBN pretty much finance Rick Renners gospel Broadcasts from Russia into China and other Asian Countries where the Gospel is banned .

    http://rickrenner.blogs.com/rworld/womens_ministry/index.html
    Worship in China
    By the time you read this, I’ll be on my way to Greece with my precious wife. You know, with our travel schedules, it sometimes feels like we don’t see much of each other. I just got back from Germany. Denise just returned from China. It’s great to be together on this trip. I know we’re both looking forward to seeing Greece. Such a beautiful and historic land!

    Speaking of her time in China, Denise and her team had a great time ministering! My wife participated in a three-day worship music festival; the first of its kind in that region. The concerts featured artists from all over the world, and Denise represented Russia. It is simply amazing to me to think that, in a nation closed to the gospel, that people would be allowed to stand on a stage and worship God with all their hearts for hours at a time. Denise really believes God is preparing that nation for a great harvest, and with each visit, her team is helping to make spiritual inroads into China. Praise God! She also said that she really felt your prayers. “It was like we were almost swimming in prayer,” she said. Thank you to everyone who agreed in prayer for this trip! Through prayer, you have a part in what God is doing halfway around the world. Isn’t that awesome?

    http://www.oxfordbiblechurch.co.uk/pages/home/missions.php

    3. We support Rick Renner Ministries, with its TV programme “Good-News with Rick Renner” which broadcasts all over the former Soviet Union and beyond, even into China.
    Rick is an apostle who has pioneered large Good News Churches in Riga, Latvia, and now Moscow as well as a Minister’s Association providing a covering for hundreds of Pastors
    and Churches. Derek and Hilary are Trustees of RR Ministries, Europe.

    So while people like you are being critical these ministries are actively making inroads into China and other Dark places in the world

    You are unaware that these ministers use their financial resources to also lobby heavily in Washington on behalf of persecuted Chrsitians across the globe or why else do you think the Bush Administration’s policies in favor of persecuted Christians has been so different from those under Clinton?

    Seriously you really need to give up this your heresy hunting and reconsider this your blog. I believe that you are a God Fearing, individual , zealous for the things of God but somewhere along the way you have been deceived and misled like the Apostle Paul before his conversion out of ignorance or lack of understanding .

    I pray that you will truly reconsider !!!

  12. Alan Higgins says:

    The fact that you are a fan of the Copelands and TBN speaks volumes. You are also missing the point. Just because they are doing these works in other countries is not proof that they are preaching SOUND DOCTRINE. Your argument seems to be that God wants us to prosper in our health and financially so that we can bless others and bless the persecuted church etc. My argument is you cannot preach that same message to the persecuted church themself and hence the health and wealth gospel is very much a westernised version of the gospel.

    But like you said, we can go on and on with this theological debate so all I can ask is that you (and myself) will be good Bereans and line up EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY with scripture RIGHTLY DIVIDED

    Alan
    https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/ten-rules-of-biblical-interpretation/

  13. STEVEM says:

    Well I guess we have reached an Impasse

    What you also should remeber is that Prayer can change nations and overturn Govts . These ministries dont just preach prosperity, health and wealth, they also preach intercessory prayer for Govts such as Paul taught in Tim


    1 Timothy 2:2
    For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

    The key to the Chinese Church’s ability to live in peace persecution free is in the verse above something these ministries teach .

    We dont overcome persecution by becoming poor we do so thru prayer .

  14. STEVEM says:

    You said:


    My argument is you cannot preach that same message to the persecuted church themself and hence the health and wealth gospel is very much a westernised version of the gospel.

    My Good friend, the WORD OF GOD which upholds the universe is not limited by geography or locale hence your statement above amounts to little more than a statement of unbelief

    Certainly to a farmer in the remote parts of Africa , prosperity may mean more rain and better corresponding harvests, while to the wesetern business man it may mean more clients but the principles remains the same

    Again read Creflo and Dr price’s books properly, they address such sentiments

  15. stevem says:


    The fact that you are a fan of the Copelands and TBN speaks volumes. You are also missing the point. Just because they are doing these works in other countries is not proof that they are preaching SOUND DOCTRINE.

    I am not a “fan” of anybody. Howeer I am a partner to those who actually do the work of the ministry throughout the globe impacting the lives of millions sprit, soul and body .

    What I am not a fan of are those who to claim defend “sound doctriine” for sound doctrines sake and have no fruit to show for all their “apologist” efforts. Nine times out of ten all they deem to be sound doctrine is amounts their own ignorance filtered thru their own limited doctrinal prisms .

  16. Alan Higgins says:

    We obviously are not going to agree so instead of going around in circles, lets just agree to disagree

    God Bless you

  17. TheTruthWillSetYouFree says:

    Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

    Matthew 6

  18. zackhensley says:

    Alan, just come across this site by happen stance. Thank you for you research. Prosperity gospel, isn’t the gospel, It’s an obfuscation.

    I think what SteveM above is missing is the what behind the means.

    God saved us so we could be free from sin and eternal wrath so that we could be with him forever and glorify God. Will God bless us? sure. Will he heal us? yes. But those are fruits of our salvation, gifts. We were made to glorify the living God.

    Jesus didn’t promise wealth but persecution. He didn’t promise success in this life, but that the world would hate us.

    The problem is not an American. Many are trying to view God through the lens of the American Dream.

    I wrote about this here:

    http://zackhensley.wordpress.com/2007/10/07/the-beatitudes-a-pursuit-of-happiness/

    blessings and thank you for your heart.

  19. Nelson says:

    I woke up this morning and confessed, I am rich and I am healed and I will have my hearts desires. All that is required of me is to believe and have no doubts. I will be richly blessed for all I give and it will be returned to me in multiples, shaken together, pressed down etc… My God must, by the laws of faith, give me all of this. I am made in His image thus I am lke God. It may not come today but I must hold fast to my confession. When I am healed I must hold onto it, lest I lose it.

    Count the I,me,my’s I count 18
    Count God, His I count 3

    Mix in the true gospel of our Lord and preach for the itching ears and what you have is the word of faith-prosperity message. Of course they spend money, of course they do good works, of course they mix lies with truth and leaven every work they do. Look at the huge churches and debts racked up for land and monuments, all the money that could be spent for widows and orphans. James 1 says in verse 27, ” Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. ”

    So I have heard the many rebuttals to Alan and others and above all, God is in control.

    Phil 2:13 says “For it is GOD who works in YOU both to will and to do for HIS good pleasure.”
    Notice it does NOT say “For it is YOU who works in GOD both to will and to do for YOUR good pleasure.

    So go ahead and live by telling your God your will and I will keep believing in the God in my bible. Peace be with us all and have a nice eternity………………..

  20. Nelson says:

    By the way, I used to live and confess like the first paragraph. My wife still does. She left me when my business was not making enough money. My savings were gone and I had to get a job. She bounced checks, borrowed money I didn’t know about and because she does a good job at “church” helping the pastor she still gets to be called pastor Amy. Did I mention she was still giving more than we had so she would get her blessings……. figure it out yet.
    It is called brainwashing !!!!!!!

    Thank God I am free from the false teachings of men. May God help them all.

  21. Alan Higgins says:

    Nelson, I did the same thing. I remember after a job interview confessing down the road like an idiot “The job is mine, the job is mine”. Only to find out that the job wasnt mine so you can imagine how upset I was with God

  22. angiemama says:

    Hi, interesting post 🙂

    I do not agree with all you wrote, because there a few things I feel you missed out. I belong to what you may term a ministry that preaches the ‘prosperity gospel’. However, I see prosperity as one of the many things that are encompassed in God’s provision (and not the only thing). We’re supposed to be in health and prosper, even as our soul prospers (3 John 1:2).

    Prosperity is not limited to finances.

    Also, the abundant life we received in Christ Jesus (which encompasses prosperity in all its forms) is not to glorify our own selves, but to be used to give in a greater measure to further the Kingdom of God. Many religious folk don’t like any teachings on prosperity, and thats their choice. The vatican even announced that ‘obscene wealth’ was now a ‘modern mortal sin’ (I am not sure of the exact name that was given so please correct me if I am wrong). Definitely we shouldn’t be heaping up treasures for ourselves to keep and experience, and we can’t take it with us, and we shouldn’t let the love of money ever surpass our love and obedience to God.

    However I don’t feel it is unscriptural to teach prosperity as part of the abundant life (inheritance) in Christ Jesus.

    Take care, God bless you mightily,
    Angie

  23. Alan Higgins says:

    Thanks for visiting my blog Angie.

    In regards to 3 John 1:2 you have made the mistake that many of these prosperity preachers use to validate their heresy and it is a twisting of scripture. 3 John 1:2 is not a doctrine from John validating the prosperity gospel but is a greeting. (Please study this for yourself if you do not think I am telling you the truth). Our modern paraphrase would be something like ‘I hope everything is well with you’

    If you go to my link ‘The Persecuted church’ on the side and see what our Christian brothers and sisters are going through, could the same messages that we hear be preached to them?

    Also I hear all the time that prosperity is not limited to our finances but whenever I listen to a lot of these teachers on a random basis, they sure do go on about finances and other material stuff. Now I am not saying that we are more spiritual if we are poor but the prosperity preachers put a lot of emphasis on material things. The same thing that the bible admonishes us not to set our hearts upon

  24. Hey Alan I have one question to all who subscribe to the “Prosperity Doctrine”….. “Have you ever seen a U-Haul behind a hearse?” If you don’t have U-Haul’s in the UK they are moving vans for all of your “stuff”. This is a quote, the source is a mystery but my father told it to me when I was going through my materialism phase. He told me, nothing that I got was going with me and he was right, we won’t even take the clothes on our backs. Here is a quote from Revered Kimberly Drieman that sums it up Perfectly:

    “Sadly, many people spend their lives buying items that will someday be tossed by someone who is cleaning up after their death. Time is another thing that is wasted-many people try to build wealth and many times do not live to enjoy it. Matthew 6:19-21 “Do not store up for yourselves treasure on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.” Matthew 6:24 “No-one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.”
    (Quote from Rev. Kimberly Dreiman )

  25. Alan Higgins says:

    I agree anointedvessel. Good quote

    Also Angie, I would challenge you to look at the christian who is spoken about the most i.e. Paul, and show me ANYWHERE, where he elevates material prosperity

  26. angiemama says:

    Hi,
    Thanks for your responses. Re: 3 John 1:2, I understand the context it is in, however I don’t like to make a habit of ‘paraphrasing’ scripture. I do believe that all scripture is profitable, and is inspired by God (3 Titus 3:16). The words ‘prosper’ there is euodoō which means according to Strong’s:
    From a compound of G2095 and G3598; to help on the road, that is, (passively) succeed in reaching; figuratively to succeed in business affairs: – (have a) prosper (-ous journey).

    That is not the only scripture that speaks of ‘prosperity’ as such… (BTW we don’t see it as what you call ‘the prosperity gospel’, but the Gospel (or “Good News”, Word of God etc).

    I love Joshua 1:8-9

    8This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

    9Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the LORD thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.

    It’s funny how people will say that verses like that only apply to the Law, or only to Joshua… however if they understood the bible and its doctrines, then they could personalise the Word of God and it wouldn’t just be a book written about the people of ‘bible times’.

    Anyway, I don’t know if you read the part I wrote in the previous post:
    “Also, the abundant life we received in Christ Jesus (which encompasses prosperity in all its forms) is not to glorify our own selves, but to be used to give in a greater measure to further the Kingdom of God”

    and

    “Definitely we shouldn’t be heaping up treasures for ourselves to keep and experience, and we can’t take it with us, and we shouldn’t let the love of money ever surpass our love and obedience to God.”

    And that’s why we’re caused to prosper… not for our own luxury and for us to ‘heap it up’, but for furthering the Kingdom and to help other’s…. to GIVE! 🙂 As I said before, people don’t like messages on prosperity as it makes them feel like they are not being religious enough… that God sees them as a lowly worm, or even that God wishes them to be poor to teach them humility or to stop them from being distracted from Him. Some believe that God chooses some to be rich and some to be poor (or ‘favouritism’). Whatever the reason, they have a right to their beliefs… although my belief is that He wants to bless us. Poverty or lack is not from God, only every good thing is from Him (James 1:17), and we should acknowledge the good things in us… including the abundant and prosperous life we have in Christ Jesus.

    Prosperity as part of your inheritance in Jesus is not heresy, just the truth to those that have received that progressive revelation.

    I await your reply (with no disrespect intended), and hopefully we can continue this discussion further… I enjoy reading all these different posts and comments.

    God bless you all 🙂
    Angie

  27. Alan Higgins says:

    I agree with what you said about the meanings in strongs but again John it is not using this as a doctrine for prosperity. Of course all scripture is inspired but we must be careful that we do not make a doctrine out of a verse that is not suppose to be. Hence the reason I gave a paraphrase. Maybe a better thing would be for me to say that our modern day equivalent would be something along the line of ‘I hope all is well with you’

    Josh 1:8 is a principle but should not be used as a text alone to say that God wants us rich. If that is the case, then you cant just stop at verse 8 but you have to include the surrounding verses. For example could we make a doctrine to say that we could “pass through the host, and command the people, saying, Prepare you victuals; for within three days ye shall pass over this Jordan, to go in to possess the land, which the LORD your God giveth you to possess it. (verse 11)” No because it was written to a certain people at a certain time. We cannot just pluck verses out to suit our means

    Now let me make my self clear in case you misunderstand me. I am NOT saying that being poor is a sign of being being more godly in the same way that I am not saying that being rich is a sign of being more godly either.

    If you read Paul’s testimony above in 2 Corinthians 11:22-33, by todays standard (or a lot of these preachers standards), we would not say that he was prosperous

    I hear what you say about abundance not for ourselves etc and I do not disagree with you. What I disagree with is the imbalance that i hear about material wealth. For every one word that a lot of these preachers say when they say “the wealth is to establish his kingdom’, I hear another 5 words talking about us sowing seeds to receive cars, houses, wives etc

    What we should expect as believers is to suffer for his name sake even if we dont receive any money. This same message could not be preached to those who are being persecuted severly for their faith. I would advise that you do some reading on the persecuted church and hear from those who have had hot oil poured on their feet, for example. It would be a insult to preach to them material gain

  28. esther says:

    I would like to know how much Bro Nelson spend on widows on orphans.

  29. Freebird says:

    This is in response to who those who give as proof of the legitimacy of the WOF movement the good works that some or all of their ministries are doing. Matthew 7:21-23 states that not everyone that says “Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom…They will say, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and cast out devils, and done many wonderful works? Jesus replied, “…I will profess to them that I never knew them; depart from me all you that work iniquity.

    The thing about apostasy is that it is a mixture, and while these ministries can and do good works, at the same time they are teaching false doctrines. “Good works” won’t be a good enough excuse when they have to give an account to God for misleading his people.

  30. Woman of God says:

    Matthew 6:33 states, “Seek first His kingdom and righteousness and everything else shall be added unto you.”

    According to this scripture, we shouldn’t be worried or concerned about anything other than His kingdom and His righteousness.

    We are to be like Jesus. All His needs were provided for because He walked in the will of God.

    When they didn’t have enough food to feed 5,000+ people, He didn’t tell the disciples to go buy more food. He thanked God and broke bread. God supplied the need. When the boat left ahead of Him and He had no way to get the other side, He didn’t go and buy another boat. He walked on water. God supplied the need.

    God dethrones mammon.

    Overall, I believe our focus is off. It’s not about us. I read and hear a lot of “God wants to bless us” and not enough of “I am Your servant. How can I bless You?” because we’re not supposed to be concerned with what He gives from His hand. That’s automatic when we’re most concerned with seeking His heart.

    [See the story of Solomon, the king who wrote Proverbs 23:4 “Weary not yourself to be rich; cease from your own human wisdom” (AMP).]

  31. AT says:

    Your doing a great job Alan. Keep it up!!

  32. dafilmdude says:

    Luke 9:57 Foxes have dens….this disproves the Jesus was rich many of the preach

    Matt 10:5-14 is a contrast to my private jet is for my ministry,my mansion is God’s blessing and more importantly it is a contrast to a life of comfort and excess

    Mattt 9:19 “do not store up treasure on earth” This is Jesus himself admonishing the pursuit of wealth, how then can we claim wealth is his promise?

    Matt 16:24 “if any of you wants to be my follower you must turn from selfish ways, take up your cross and follow me…for what shall it promise a man if he gains the whole world and looses his soul.

    Mark 10:17 this is the story of the rich man who wanted eternity, but did not want to give up his wealth to follow Jesus. The justification for wealth for the Kingdom of God is exactly what was the young rich mans problem, He was already contributing and giving to charity.He had a greater desire to be comfortable and keep his wealth, than to follow christ. Isn’t prosperity Gospel creating fatter camels.

    Phil 4:19 “my God shall supply your needs according to his riches in Christ Jesus” This is often quoted to justify the prosperity and say it’s a promise from God, but it’s not taken in the context Paul said it. Paul had previously received gifts from the church and he counted it as God supplying for him.Reading the whole passage reveals Paul saying that he has learned to be satisfied with what he has,even living on an empty stomach(vs 10-14)

    1 Tim 6:8 “so if we have enough food and clothing let us be content”

    1 Tim 6:9-10 “many i their desire to be rich have wandered from the TRUE faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows.” Timothy is then admonished to flee these things and pursue righteousness and Godly life along with faith Love,perseverance and gentleness.Fight the good fight for the true faith. Hold tightly to the eternal life to God who called you.

    NB-Solomon in the comfort his wealth brought him eventually fell away from God.

    David became wealthy and comfortable. thus stopped going to war, stopped spending time with God and then committed adultery and then murder. This was a man after God’s heart, but the minute wealth entered his life, see what happened

    v 17-19 Refers to those ALREADY rich, and not an endorsement to pursue wealth

    2 Peter 2:3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money,but God condemned them long ago.

    Rev 3:15-18….Church in Laodicea boasted in their wealth and earthly accomplishments but were luke warm spiritually.

    Luke 12:13-21 Life is not measured by how much you own. This is the parable of the Rich fool, who looked at his accomplishment and was like “I’m the man”. The bible never said he was an adulterer, thief or murderer, But his comfort and whole life was centered around his prosperity and not a holy life in God.

    How many of these prosperity preachers would be ready not to earn another penny, and give it all up to live and preach in the jungles??

    How many of them preach about HOLINESS and UNCOMPROMISING living for God. And don’t tell me “there are different callings”

    The entire new testament is about Christian Living, and none of the apostles were Rich, none of them had their pockets full of Gold or owned mansions and real estate.

    Apostle Paul, arguably the most anointed man to live after Christ, had to make tents to make money. He never was rich, In fact, he left a life of influence to spread the gospel.

    Is poverty a sign of Holiness?, NO, Are we saying Christians must be poor, NO. Are we saying God does not supernaturally provide finances and other needs,of course not. Are we saying some TRUE Christians won’t be millionaires, NO.

    BUT

    Many of these prosperity preachers are not saying anything different from what you’d read in “The Secret” or at secular Wealth Building seminar, they just have a ribbon of twisted scripture to justify it being “spiritual” or God’s promise.

    Many of the principles they teach have meta physical origins

    Isn’t it funny that these preachers are the only ones achieving this principles, and many of the people sowing seed and applying are staying the same, or getting poorer, all the while believing that they don’t have enough faith.

    A more important question. When an unbeliever “converts” at a prosperity church , who is he converting to?

    The Jesus that gives him health and Wealth and solves all his problems, makes him prosperous without changing his life?

    The Jesus that fufills his dreams without addressing his sin

    OR

    The Jesus that came to save us from our sin , the Jesus, by whose name ONLY can we be saved.

    None of the apostles, who had direct contact had a life of comfort, Few people were as anointed as they were, or as powerfully used of God as they were. Why do we then think we are elevated above the things they went through????

    If y’all want to keep claiming Solomon’s and Abraham’s financial prosperity, you also have to remember that they lived under the law, and you might as well live and claim that too.

    I was a victim of Prosperity gospel, so i have used all the same arguments those still in it bring up. God opened my eyes to the deception that it is. I pray God opens your eyes to the lies that are coming from the pulpit.

    2 Tim 4: 3 For the time will come when they will not listen to sound doctrine but will have itching ears ,will heap up for themselves teachers after their own lusts.

    If incredible desire for wealth is not the Pride of life and Lust of the eyes, i dunno what is.

  33. dafilmdude says:

    Check out a Biblical and objective view by Pastor John MacArthur on WOF and some of it’s surprising origins.If you truly believe in WOF, and want to know where it came from listen and make up your mind where you stand.

    http://www.gty.org/Shop/Audio+Lessons/90-64#

    NB-Amongst all Pastors that have appeared on Larry King Live, MacArthur has been the only one to take an uncompromising biblical stand on questions about Sin(homosexuality), Salvation(how we get saved) and other things.

    Many of the prosperity preachers in order not to loose many of of their unrepentant followers, and financiers, give a watered down , politically correct answer which leaves many living in that sin , justified that there is nothing wrong.

  34. MaryMary says:

    I am so glad that you put the Donnie Swaggart videos up!! I found those a few months back and was in complete awe!! It’s about time that people take a stand!! I truly don’t understand why people stay in these churches!! Don’t the danger signals ever go off? I used to watch Joel Osteen when he very first started preaching and liked him a lot, but after a while I felt that something was just not right with him….

  35. Alan Higgins says:

    Dafilmdude, thatyou very much for that info which was an enjoyable read. Funny enough, I will be posting John Macarthur’s charasmatic chaos in the next few days

  36. To Steve M,Angie Mama and the proponents of the properity gospel.

    I really don’t think Alan or anyone here is against prosperity it’s self. We just don’t like the way prosperity gospel is taught.

    I’ve heard all the possible defences people have for it , because i have used them myself.

    No one is saying that we should be poor, or mediocre and use that as a claim to Holiness or righteousness.

    The biggest problem with the prosperity Gospel is it’s focal point. Like da film dude said. The ENTIRE focus is all about money. Yes, some of them touch other issues slightly , but they often take scriptures that have nothing to do with money, and then twist it to refer to money.

    A scripture that may be referring to a spiritual restoration or relationship with God, is made to mean money.

    We talk about “take back what the enemy stole” and instead of using it to claim our connection with God or family members that are lost, we make it to mean money.

    I don’t think Alan or anyone of us here is against doing well, or even extremely well in finances, or even becoming rich.

    BUT, when the parable of the sower, which is about how people receive, fail to receive and lose the word of God they have. Is turned into

    “Sow into my fruitful ministry, and receive a financial blessing and not another unfruitful ministry”

    THAT is a scary thing. And that is just a minute twisting compared to some of the other teachings.

    The prosperity gospel tends to focus so much one money, that the congregation members that are actually saved, Have so much focus on finances that they may neglect to share their faith, or live a life that is a testimony, because being a NO COMPROMISE christian may get in the way.

    Those that came to the church, ONLY to hear how their finances would be blessed, will still be living in fornication, adultery, lack of integrity, malice hate. WHY? Those issues are rarely if ever addressed because all the focus is on money.

    YES , i beleive that a pastor can talk about money, investment, prudency in finances, and how God can bless out finances.

    BUT money takes up all 52 sundays, in a year. What happens to those that come to church looking for spiritual guidance, repentance. Those that have made all the money, had the fame. But realize that they need much more than that.

    What happens to the CEO that is skimming off the top, but is never corrected in church because all he gets in more money tips.

    What happens to the teenage couple fornicating. Yes , they “love” each other, and see nothing wrong, and since pastor never mentions it, it must be cool.

    What about the person that God is speaking to with a still small voice to be a missionary, but is confused because his pastor insists that financial prosperity,big houses, cool cars are a sign of God’s blessings to the unsaved world. Do you really think, he’s be able to hear to Lord after the pastor has lit up CHI CHING, dollar signs in his eyes , of comfort and pleasure, As opposed to an uncomfortable jungle far away from home?

    Once again, we are not against,prosperity, or a christian having health ,wealth and success in career and finances. We are just against the way scripture is mis interpreted by this movement to promote it. And how in secular interviews, many of these preachers fail to take a stand for the gospel,because they are afraid of their book sales dropping if they say something Biblically sound, but not politically correct.

    People are attending these churches for years on end, but there has never been a transformation or conviction in their lives, because the prosperity message overrides that of salvation. I like the points film dude made, and also the John MacArthur addressing of the movement.

    VERY SHOCKING things from the mouths of some of the leaders of this movement.

    The complete irony of the situation is that. when you listen to people like Tony Robbins,Jim Rohn and other motivational speakers/trainers. They use bible passage more accurately that some preachers. If you haven’t listened to it, check it out and draw your own conclusions.

    And the fact is , it you take 10 people at the beginning of the year. Send 5 to a TR seminar and send 5 to a prosperity church. At the end of the year, using the principles they have being taught. The former are more likely to have attained financial freedom, and only the pastor and ministry of the latter is doing better financially.

    We can and should believe God to bless us in our lives, spirit, career, finances. But thinking that because we sowed in this or that ministry, and without a change in either our spirit life, mindset, building of skills or new choices , that we would just become millionaires?

    Well, good luck with that.

    http://www.thebereanscribe.blogspot.com

    PS- If you can find the book CRAZY LOVE by Francis Chan, it will challenge the way you think about your faith and walk.

  37. Alan Higgins says:

    “if you take 10 people at the beginning of the year. Send 5 to a TR seminar and send 5 to a prosperity church. At the end of the year, using the principles they have being taught. The former are more likely to have attained financial freedom, and only the pastor and ministry of the latter is doing better financially.”

    Excellent quote

  38. steve camp says:

    Does the Lord want all Christians to be happy, healthy, horny and wealthy? Or just those in the U.S.Does that mean that those who are being killed in other places are out of his will? Or just do not have enough faith?

  39. Jean Williams says:

    Look at the whole Bible. God has greatly prospered the men and women of old times who followed His drection. I follow these ministry teachings and I have prospered supernaturally. I’ve been healed. Scoff if you want, but you’re too late for me.

  40. Pastor Dr. Juergen Eichermueller says:

    There is not Prosperity Gospel. There is only ONE Gospel, and that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You have to realize that in every truth found in God’s Word the enemy is going to warp it just like he did in the Garden to Eve…..Hath God said? Without the Blessings of God and His Prosperity you cannot build churches and preach the Gospel. I have been in the mission filed for 21 years and I can verify that the Word of God works even in the area of Blessing and Prosperity. I could not have ministered for 21 years on the other side of the world without the monetary means. And i recieved that through Faith in His Word and His Blessing that makes rich without adding sorrow to it!

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