OK, I was on another website and someone commented ‘Have ya’ll heard about the Florida outpouring? Check it out on God TV at 7.00pm onwards every night! Be excited…God is about to move!’

For those of you who don’t know, God TV is a christian television channel here in the UK which broadcasts around the world. It has a lot of false teachers/word of faith preachers on it like the Copelands, Creflo Dollar, Jesse Duplantis, Benny Hinn and they occasionally do beg-a-thons Missions Week where they get in people like Mike Murcoch and Steve Munsey to help with fund raising. It seems like I am not the only one who has beef with God TV. Check out this post

How do we preach the gospel? By preaching repentance and faith? Don’t be silly. Benny Hinn will tell you how


That’s right. You preach the gospel by ‘sowing that seed’. Shame on you if you didn’t know 😉

But I digress, so going back to the ‘Florida outpouring’, I turned over the channel to see this ‘outpouring’ and what do I see. I see a man called Todd Bentley doing ‘Benny Hinn’ style of ‘healings’ in Florida. When I saw it, I had to ask the question “Is that it? Is that what is now classed as revival?”

It never ceases to amaze me how deceived people can be. All because of a lack of knowledge of sound doctrine or because people just cannot be bothered to read the bible themselves. For example here is a quote from Todd Bentley

“If an anointed point is made by a minister of the gospel and an associate wants that particular point activated in their life, they will immediately sow into it. By that I mean, they will run up to the pulpit or the altar—“I want that”—and sow into the anointing in that moment of glory, by placing an offering there. Bam! Just whatever is said, they sow into it. Of course they can’t buy the anointing, but on the other hand they can sow into it.”

And the bible verse for that is …….hmmmmm….that’s right. There isn’t one. He also says that scripture speaks of an angel that releases finances. Check out Phil 4:19 for yourself. What do you mean you cant see it? Just do some scripture twisting and it will appear. You can read some of Todd Bentley’s teachings here and also here where he talks about going into trances, seeing angelic beings and how we should pray that we can see angels and get a visitation from them.

Check out a clip of his ‘Florida Revival’. Look familiar?

If this is what the priest wants to bring back to Engalnd, I hope he stays where he is.

Below are two videos which does a good job exposing some of the false teachers for who they are.

The Signs and Wonders Movement Expo$ed – Part 1

The Signs and Wonders Movement Expo$ed – Part2

Related Posts:

What does the bible say about Benny Hinn?

Judge Not?

Its not all about Jesus’ according to Todd Bentley

Coming out of deception

Todd Bentley being discussed on CrossTalk America

How much more evidence do you need? The ministry of assault and battery

Todd Bentley commits adultery

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 1 – A Form of godliness

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 2 – Scripture Twisting

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 5 – The Prosperity Gospel

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers (Interlude) – My reason for doing this

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 7 – Signs and Wonders

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers Part 9 – Giving False Hope

The marks of false ‘christian’ teaching and teachers – The Conclusion

Advertisements
Comments
  1. Isaiah says:

    I actually checked out Todd Bentley “live” on his Internet broadcast and I’ve had enough just after 10 minutes or so.

    He was talking about the presence of angels evidenced by blue orbs or something just as I entered the channel, then went on to talk about how he dumped a demon out of his house where he battled it then saw a huge tube come down from heaven, something akin to a vacuum tube he said, and suck the demon away.

    Hmm… yea, right. He must sure have some special powers alright for a special tube to be called because Jesus sure didn’t use that “vacuum tube” thing.

  2. Phil Naessens says:

    Hi Alan,

    Great post!

    I am under the firm belief that GOD TV will be one of three networks (TBN, DAYSTAR) who will usher in the antichrist….all this “revival” or “outpouring” is just a warm up act preparing for the real thing…..

    Pray Brothers and Sisters!

  3. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    This is nothing more, nothing less than a manifestation of the prevailing attitude of these last days. My dad seems to love watching this guy, so much so that he is planning to go down to Florida!!! Needless to say, this whole thing stinks of what happened in Toronto and Brownsville…

  4. Max says:

    YOU ARE BLINDED BY LIES, DECEPTIONS AND YOUR FLESH IF YOU BELIEVE WHAT TODD BENTLEY AND HIS HERETICS ARE DOING IS OF GOD. THERE HAVE BEEN THOUSANDS OF FALSE PROPHETS AND HERETICS IN HISTORY LEADING PEOPLE INTO DOCTRINES OF DEVILS AND BLASPHEMIES, TODD BENTLEY IS NO DIFFERENT AND WILL FALL UNDER THE JUDGMENT OF GOD IF HE DOES NOT REPENT AND PUBLICLY DENOUNCE HIS SATANIC DOCTRINES AND DECEPTIONS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. RETURN TO THE HOLY BIBLE AND ITS SOUND DOCTRINES OR YOU WILL FALL WITH ALL THESE HERETICS WHO ARE THE ENEMIES OF GOD SERVING ANOTHER GOSPEL LEADING OTHERS INTO DESTRUCTION.

    Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

    Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

    Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

    Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.

    Luk 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

    2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies

    1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils

    1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

    2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

    Tts 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

    Tts 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers….Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre’s sake.

    Tts 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

    Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

    Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

    2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness

    PASTE ALL OF THESE QUOTES IN TODD BENTLEY’s CHAT TO WARN THE DECEIVED OF THE WORD OF GOD THROUGH THE BIBLE, PERHAPS A FEW WILL HAVE EARS TO HEAR AND REPENT OF TODD BENTLEY’s BLASPHEMIES. HIS HEALINGS AND MIRACLES ARE ALL A LIE AND TODD COULD NOT SHOW ANY PROOF OF HEALING OF ANYTHING EVEN REMOTELY RELATED TO A BIBLICAL EXAMPLE OF A HEALING IF HE WAS PUT TO ANY KIND OF SCIENTIFIC TEST. EVEN JESUS HIMSELF WHEN HE HEALED SOMEONE TOLD HIM AFTERWARDS TO GO TO THE PRIEST TO PROVE WHAT HAD BEEN DONE SO THAT THERE MAY BE WITNESSES. TODD IS ONLY AFTER YOUR MONEY AS MOST ALL TV PREACHERS ARE AND LEECHES OFF YOUR DESPERATION AND THE MADNESS OF VARIOUS PENTECOSTAL FALSE GOSPELS, IF YOU ONLY KNEW WHAT WAS INSIDE THE MINDS OF THESE HERETICS AND THEIR TRUE INTENTIONS YOU WOULD BE SHOCKED. THERE ARE SOME GOOD DOCUMENTARIES OUT THERE EXPOSING SOME OF THESE GUYS ON FILM SUCH AS “the great apostasy the last sign” from cultlink.

    All you fellow Christians who believe in the sound doctrines of the Bible and who know video stuff should produce your own documentaries as well.
    The mouths of these deceivers must be stopped

  5. libraryman says:

    There isn’t anything that I can say to most of you that will change your judgmental attitudes, so with this in mind I have 2 questions for you:

    1. Has God ever used someone to impact your life in
    a supernatural manner?

    2. What if this is God and you are the ones that have
    “missed the boat”?

    I look forward to the responses

  6. Alan Higgins says:

    My response is that God will not do something contrary to his word. Nothing is wrong with righteous judgment (John 7:24) ie seeing if something lines up to the word of God. Thus we miss the boat if what we speak is unbiblical

    Alan

    PS I will be posting a video tomorrow about judging

  7. libraryman says:

    Alan,

    As far as being contrary to the Word, how , ’bout backing your
    opinion up with 2 or more Scriptures….

    LM

  8. Alan Higgins says:

    I have said one above already but an example of scripture twisting is Phil 4:19 where he says that it speaks of an angel that releases finances

    Then Todd bently says “When you honor and talk about the supernatural or you honor and talk about angels, guess what starts showing up? Angels”. There is NO scripture reference to back this up (unless you can show me one)

  9. odellcm says:

    libraryman,

    Are you so gullible that you believe everything that you, see, read or hear? I wuld assume that you are not, because we each have our own opinions as to what we believe.

    I am like many in this room and have my reservations about what is actually happening and I have no guilt in my heart about questioning what is going on.

    1 John 3:1 “Beloved believe not every spirirt , but try the spirits whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

    Many times we will be deceived by the charisma and the signs and wonders that follow people. Jesus said in Matt. 24:24 that false Christs and false prophets will deceive the very elect if it were possible. I believe that many are now being deceived because we, the Church, have been so dumbed down that we accept any new revelation that comes from these so-called prophets.

    We have placed ourselves in a position that affords no accountability for religious leaders. Many of these men that are so revered in this movement have been proven to live contrary to what the Scriptures call for us to live. But, let me say that I completely believe in restoration to the ministry if they reject the false teachings and embrace the truth of the Word of God. Most of what these men teach is nothing more than New Age doctrines taught under the guise of Christianity. They teach spiritual vizualization which is nothing more than what the NEw Agers refer to as being led into enlightment by guided visualization. We have accepted these doctrines as “new wine”, when they are nothing more than occultic practices that are used by shaman, witches, sorcerers and New Age gurus, these doctrines are occultic and dangerous to our spiritual walk with God.

    These practices are dangerous enough, but when you couple it with the fact that many of these “prophets” say that they hear from God and reveal these new doctrines and prophesy about the “winds of change”, but they forget to mention that many of them only “prophesy” at 80% accuracy or less. By Scriptural guidelines, their accuracy rates exclude them from being a prophet of God, unless they are sent with a lying spirit, 1 Kings 22:22-23, which I believe may be the case, to give them a strong delusion so they would believe a lie, 2 Thess. 2:9-2.

    Many of these men live lifestyles that are contrary to the Word of God, but there is rarely any scrutiny brought about because of their lives. Let me give you an example: Paul Cain, one of the movements “super prophets” appeared at the meeting on Sunday night, who started his ministry in the 1940’s under the tent in the healing revivals. He says that Jesus appeared to him and told him to get rid of his wife to be because He was jealous of her. He then made a vow of celibacy, and up until 2003 he kept his secrets well hidden. During the time of 2003 Rick Joyner and others heard that he was living life as a homosexual and an alcoholic. They kept this secret for a year, then went public with it in 2004. They were happy to hide this man’s life in order to further their own kingdom. They offered this man restoration under them, he refused and claimed that the charges were false for 3 months, only to admit that they were all true. He went under restoration procedures and is now back proclaiming to be a prophet. Let me again say that I believe that this man can be restored and was proud to see this man once again take the stage and proclaim the Word of God and believed that he had been delivered. But his own words betrayed him in the end.

    He called a young man, one of Bentley’s interns front and center, and prophesied over him. When he opened his moth to speak over this man he lied before God, the thousands there and the millions watching on TV. He told how he had vowed to live a celibate lifestyle and had done so for all these years. When he said this I couldn’t believe that he would stand and say that, how can a man that has come through a restoration process for homosexuality have lived a celibate lifestyle? But then I thought about it and realized how hypocritical this man had been during meetings, calling out people’s sins and all the while living his life as he did. I firmly believe many of these men have a lying spirit in their mouths and will stop at nothing to usher in the apostate church prophesied by Paul.

  10. Libraryman says:

    I love this, thanks for opening up a dialogue…..

    I realize that it is not my responsibility to try and change
    your minds about anything. I am not that powerful nor that
    smart. What I sense here is an attitude that I had for over
    15 years…..I have been where you are now, that’s OK. I really love all of you in the Lord.

    I want to leave you with a few Scriptures and let the Spirit
    do the work.

    John 7:24 (New Living Translation)
    Look beneath the surface so you can judge correctly.”
    (Ask for verification, ask the Lord to show you or is your mind already made up?)

    1 John 4:1-3, 4-6, 7-8
    Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here. (Todd acknowledges Jesus and the truth about Jesus.)

    But you belong to God, my dear children. You have already won a victory over those people, because the Spirit who lives in you is greater than the spirit who lives in the world. Those people belong to this world, so they speak from the world’s viewpoint, and the world listens to them. But we belong to God, and those who know God listen to us. If they do not belong to God, they do not listen to us. That is how we know if someone has the Spirit of truth or the spirit of deception. (Todd is speaking from the world’s viewpoint???)

    Dear friends, let us continue to love one another, for love comes from God. Anyone who loves is a child of God and knows God. But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love. ( You’re showing love?? You’ve already tried and convicted him; have you asked him for verification….but then again you probably wouldn’t believe him no matter what he said or what proof he showed you. You could show Todd love by praying for him)

    1 Cor 12:7-11 NLT
    7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the [Holy] Spirit [the evidence, the spiritual illumination of the Spirit] for good and profit.

    8 To one is given in and through the [Holy] Spirit [the power to speak] a message of wisdom, and to another [the power to express] a word of knowledge and understanding according to the same [Holy] Spirit;

    9 To another [wonder-working] faith by the same [Holy] Spirit, to another the extraordinary powers of healing by the one Spirit;

    10 To another the working of miracles, to another prophetic insight (the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose); to another the ability to discern and distinguish between [the utterances of true] spirits [and false ones], to another various kinds of [unknown] tongues, to another the ability to interpret [such] tongues.

    11 All these [gifts, achievements, abilities] are inspired and brought to pass by one and the same [Holy] Spirit, Who apportions to each person individually [exactly] as He chooses

    Seems to me that this is being done. Jesus is being glorified, ministries from Scotland, Pensacola, SC and more are giving testimonies. If you really wanted to seek the truth try and reach these people and ask them face to face

    Romans 3:3 AMP
    What if some did not believe and were without faith? Does their lack of faith and their faithlessness nullify and make ineffective and void the faithfulness of God and His fidelity [to His Word]?(Can this be said about the critics?)

    2 Tim 3:5 NLT
    For [although] they (you) hold a form of piety (true religion), they (you) deny and reject and are strangers to the power of it [their conduct belies the genuineness of their profession]. Avoid [all] such people [turn away from them].

    Hey, there are always critics. Someone said that
    Jesus had a demon. Guess Todd is in good company.

    LM

  11. Libraryman says:

    Alan you mentioned

    I have said one above already but an example of scripture twisting is Phil 4:19 where he says that it speaks of an angel that releases finances

    Then Todd bently says “When you honor and talk about the supernatural or you honor and talk about angels, guess what starts showing up? Angels”. There is NO scripture reference to back this up (unless you can show me one)

    I will show you two:(There are plenty more examples)

    Heb 1:14: Are not the angels all ministering spirits (servants) sent out in the service [of God for the assistance] of those who are to inherit salvation? What do we need assistance with? Would assistance be financial? God will supply and angels minister to us, serve us.

    Psalm 34:7: The Angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him [who revere and worship Him with awe] and each of them He delivers. Delivers what? Whatever we need

    Phil 4:19:And my God will liberally supply ([a]fill to the full) your every need according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.

    Why can’t God send angels to supply whatever we need?

    We each have guardian angels who stand before God
    Mat 18:10 talks about the angels watching over the kids
    “Beware that you do not despise or feel scornful toward or think little of one of these little ones, for I tell you that in heaven their angels always are in the presence of and look upon the face of My Father Who is in heaven.”

    Ps 91 angels are ever standing guard to protect and provide us with whatever we need

    Maybe it’s me but I don’t see any problems with angels
    delivering to us anything that we need.

    LM

  12. odellcm says:

    libraryman,

    I sat here tonight and watched this meeting and I heard no one preach the Gospel, yes there were professions of faith, but I saw no one crack the Bible to bring the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    I applaud the fact that they have had professions of faith at each meeting, as well as on the street. This should be our primary concern, but tonight I saw the baptism of the Holy Ghost take center stage and the salvation of these people was pushed to the backburner.

    I am Pentecostal and have experienced the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the initial physical evidence of speaking in tongues, and I rejoice when I see someone receive the baptism . I have prayed over people and God has done miraculous things, but my first concern is that people’s hearts are right. What good is pushing the baptism if people are not saved and are not eligible to receive the Holy Ghost.

    This is not what I saw happen tonight. I saw people that were more worried about getting people spirit-filled and seeing them operate in the gifts of the Spirit and carry them back to their home churches, than they were about where they were going to spend eternity. We should love their soul enough that we offer them the chance to receive Jesus Christ, isn’t this what Jesus’ Great Commision states?

    But, this is not isolated to these movements like this. This is a running problem in many Pentecostal churches. They put too much emphasis on the baptism and not enough on the salvation of the lost. The Pastors of these churches never see spiritual growth in their membership, because they are more concerned with the manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit. They preach spoon-deep messages and the flock close their Bibles and don’t crack them again until the next church service. They seem to be spiritually head and shoulders above everyone else, but they are some of the most Biblically shallow people that have ever graced a pew.

    It has been my experience that most of these people that claim to be super-spiritual are nothing but phonies that are so haughty that they have no love for their fellow man. Paul said that if these gifts were not manifest in love then they were worthless. They claim to see visions and dream dreams, they have a word of knowledge for someone in the congregation, they come and pray for someone’s healing, but they only do these things to be seen. They don’t really care for the people that they are around, they only care that they show off their perceived spirituality, and by doing this they are worthless to the advancement of the Kingdom of God. They seek to serve their own kingdom and no one else’s.

    This is why I am so guarded about situations like the one going on in Lakeland.

  13. Alan Higgins says:

    I don’t go around ‘honoring and talking about angels’ (though I do believe them) so does that mean that they do not show up in my life? Again there is no scripture to back this up and none of the scriptures you mentioned say that we must speak about angels for them to show up

    Are you trying to tell me that from the plain reading of Phil 4:19, you can come to the interpretation that this means that there is an angel of finance.

    Hebrews 1:14 is talking about salvation. Nothing to do with finance

    Psalms 34:7. When it says he delivers it means he delivers us OUT OF, not delivers as in delivering like a postman

    Matthew 18:10 talks about angels beholding the face of the father which is in heaven. Again nothing about there being a angel of finance

    Psalms 91:11-12 from my translation says nothing about angels giving us what we need. Nor does it talk about a spirit of finance. Incidently, this is the same scripture that the devil twisted to try and get Jesus to jump off the cliff.

    When you read scripture, you must always read the context and not use eisegesis (try and cram your theology into a text to make it say what you want it to say) but use exegesis (let the text speak as it is and then have a doctrine accordingly). Scripture determines doctrine. Doctrine does not determine scripture

  14. odellcm says:

    If I had to guess libraryman is from the “blab it and grab it” movement. People involved in this movement believe that God sends His angels to minister to us in special ways, ie. financial, new cars, new homes, etc….

    They have forgotten about the words of Jesus found in Rev. 3:14-22, Jesus implores us to buy of Him gold tried by fire so we can be rich and white raiment so that we can be clothed. He says this because in vs. 17 we see that the people of this church no longer need God, they have more desire for material goods with no relationship with the Father.

    We seek materialistic wealth and no longer worry about the truths of Christiandom, such as giving our goods to the poor, preaching the Gospel and living a holy lifestyle. We see Scriptures that are twisted to prove their point and we use materials as a gauge as to how much faith we have in God. God is not about materials, He is all about seeing us have a relationship with Him by the blood of Christ.

    I do agree that He sends His angels to minister to us, but I do not see Him sending His angels to bring us money or the like.

    I, also believe, that God will give us the desires of our heart, but if our heart only wants materials, one would have to question where their relationship is with God. Jesus said that it is better to have our treasures in heaven than it is on Earth. All the money we have and all the treasures we lay up here are nothing but junk, they are nothing but stubble that will be consumed by fire.

  15. locket says:

    God also said, you shall know them by there fruit, weres your ministery, weres your God television, all your doing is slagging other christians off who are trying there best to win people for God. Im not sure you will find them spending there time writing posts about you mate.

  16. Phil Naessens says:

    Libraryman,

    What does the following Scripture mean to you and can it be applied to this Bentley guy?

    Colossians 2:18-19 (ESV)

    18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

    Have a great day in the Lord!

    Phil

  17. Alan Higgins says:

    So locket just because a person is on TV means they are doing ministry?

    I’m glad you mentioned that scripture so lets look at it in context shall we

    Matthew 7

    15 “BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

    How do you know what their fruit is? By their doctrine? How do you know their doctrine? By lining it up with scripture like the Bereans (Acts 17:11) and not just swallowing it up because the name of Jesus is mentioned

    I have no problem people writing about me and correcting me. In fact I encourage it as long as you have scripture to back up your position. I want to be in line with the word of God

  18. libraryman says:

    Hey all,

    Everyone is free to believe what they want. There have
    always been skeptics and there always will. There were
    Pharisees then and there are Pharisees now.

    The Apostle Paul believed that he was standing up for
    God also before he really came to know Him by going around killing Christians. The same is being done today by citizens of the Kingdom. Of course here in America we “kill” Christians by our attitudes and our words and of course
    Internet sites.

    All things are possible to him who believes. I guess the
    opposite is also true, not much is possible to him who
    does not believe, but they reserve the right to criticize which must be another gift of the Spirit in some part

    Scriptures can be shown to you until the proverbial cows come home but it won’t matter. Todd can have verification of the healings but it won’t matter. Do all people get healed? Of course not. He even mentions that.

    If Moses would be here today, some would disqualify him for
    a leadership position because he killed someone. Rahab
    wouldn’t have a chance with the religious crowd today, yet
    God makes sure she is commended for her faith in Heb 11.

    Unless services are performed the way you want to see
    them performed there is something wrong. If people don’t
    say the words you want to hear, something is wrong. If
    the miraculous shows up it probably isn’t God it’s probably
    somehow demonic. How sad.

    When those that believe are doing what the Lord says in
    Mat 10:8: Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely (without pay) you have received, freely (without charge) give, they are pelted from the
    audience…thank God the Lord has put me in many situations where I have seen the supernatural show up.

    If you want to have a small God it is your choice.

    Oh yeah, I am one of those blab and grab it folks:
    Mark 11:24; For this reason I am telling you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe (trust and be confident) that it is granted to you, and you will [get it]. It has worked for me and will always work for me

    As for those who do not believe, trust God for the miraculous, you can always launch a website and criticize those that do….

    LM

  19. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    Oh please, take time and listen to what you are saying. Moses had miracles – why? The miracles in the land of Egypt were signs of God’s judgement on the kingdom of Egypt – not gratituous works at the hand of Moses. Rahab experienced the miracle of regeneration [read the story carefully…] – she didn’t stay a sinner!

    You go on to say that if a service isn’t done a certain way it must be demonic [most likely, you were taking a jab at us]. Well, in the Bible, I see the following as elements of any true worship service. Let’s see if Bentley matches up with any of these:

    1. PRAYER – Bible-saturated, God-exalting prayer – not the gratituous, “I want it now” prayer that Bentley and his cronies are so fond of

    2. PREACHING – Bentley fails at this miserably. I have watched EVERY episode since this nonsense started and Bentley has not preached the Bible ONCE. There has been no expository preaching out of his camp since the Lakeland “Revival” started. What’s worse, there has been no GOSPEL preached. What is the Gospel? It is the objective message of the Person and Redemptive Work of the Lord Jesus, subjectively applied by faith to the repentant sinner. No mention of the Gospel from that camp

    3. PRAISE – Bentley warps the meaning of this third pillar. True worship springs from a heart thankful for the Gospel, not an unregenerate heart looking for signs and wonders. Worship is not dragging God out of heaven – it is our hearts raised to God in adoration

    In the context of the church service, I would also add:

    4. THE SACRAMENTS – Christian believers-only baptism and the partaking of the Lord’s Supper.

    Finally, you went on to discuss that we want a “small God”. What a Biblically-ignorant statement to make. Let’s take Jesus Himself – when He healed the paralytic, which did He say was easier? Healing someone or regenerating the dead human heart? You see, your statement doesn’t fly in the face of Scripture! I’m gonna tap out on this one, because I end up writing my first book on Bro. Alan’s blog

  20. Paul Carley Ireland says:

    Dear Libaryman

    I assume you are well intentioned in your endeavours to convince us but I detect that most posters here are like the “noble men of Berea” and have learnt to search the scriptures “to see if these things were so”.

    As you have drawn us to Moses might I take you to 2 Tim 3 which outlines the days we now live in. I guess you will go straight to verse 5 and say we are denying the power, but if you look deeper, you will see that this constant seeking for signs is feeding the unbelief in the church with people looking for something more that the cross and something other than “Christ and Him crucified”.

    In verse 8 Paul reminds us that the socererors of Pharaohs court replicated Moses “miracles”, in fact they added to the plagues by bringing more frogs and more lice, so they could be said to have “done the Lords work”. But they were resisting God, is it not possible that Satan would so decieve us. Paul says these false teachers are corupt and reprobate concerning the faith.

    This is an overhyped duplicity, a circus, all spun by the so called God channel. The decision to drop other programs to air a so called revival which just happens to co-incide with their programmed event for pentecost Sunday is so clever its a joke. Many sat back and watched the people of God destroyed by Toronto and Brownsville, and I for one feel that its high time Pastors and elders called this for what it is , and not couch it in fear of maybe being ” judgemental”. Pauls said dont even eat with such as these, we have heard enough and seen enough.

    This is yet another deception and will lead the unwary to ruin.

  21. libraryman says:

    Wow! did any of you see the Florida outpouring last night it was awesome. People on their faces, more testimonies….

    Yet, there will always be the skeptics, yet if they fight off the doubt and unbelief Jesus just might change their lives forever

    Your brother in the Lord
    LM

  22. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    LM, you said “…there will always be the skeptics”. With all due respect, have you considered why we are skeptics?

  23. libraryman says:

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with being skeptical:

    skeptic: A philosophical position in which people choose to critically examine whether the knowledge and perceptions that they have are actually true

    There is a difference between being skeptical and mocking:

    mocker: someone who jeers or mocks or treats something with contempt…

    There are Christians that I don’t agree with…but I keep my opinions to myself and if they continue to bother me I keep praying about it, but that’s me. There is no way that I can
    know what someone’s motives are….

    I Cor 1:25, 27
    This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength…Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.

    To be skeptical and then express that it “may” be a work of the devil, the spirit of the antichrist is premature. To think it is one thing, to say it is another, especially on the internet…

    I am just puzzled that there are some that are immediately negative AND saying critical comments. Fine, be negative, but keep it to yourself or at least talk in private among yourselves and debate it. Ask the Lord about it.

    1 John says to test the spirits= scrutinize, examine carefully; isn’t that different than criticizing saying, well, this isn’t being done…or he said this…..I don’t see that in the Bible…

    Do you think it’s possible that the adversary is somewhat responsible for sowing seeds of doubt so that when a move of God does come along we become like 2 Pet 3:3:

    Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come….

    God TV is loosing revenue, Bentley is not taking a penny and is paying $15,000 a day for the convention center to boot, testimonies are coming in from all over the world. Would the antichrist want people on their face before God? Would he want salvations to happen? Would he want people healed, delivered from demons. My wife and I are in the deliverance ministry, we know about demons. We have been to Lakeland and are going back. We have seen the people that have been on the platform off camera. We know they have been delivered. When you go in person, you also see “God stuff” that never makes it on camera.
    So, all these people are deceived?

    I am also a researcher, I can be a skeptic also, so my wife and I went to check it out. The ones that go want more of God, not religion. I and they have been touched by God in a tangible way.

    But then again there will always be the doubters…

  24. Alan Higgins says:

    Libraryman, if we look at Mat 24:24 it says

    For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

    So even if there are healings, testimonies etc, we can see from the above scripture that it doesnt mean it is from God. So there must be something else that we must use to distinguish if something is from God or not, do you agree?

  25. Alan Higgins says:

    Also, when you ‘check things out’ ,do you check it out by their experiences or by scripture?

  26. Observer says:

    Learn How to Become a False Prophet Performing False Miracles! Learn the Secrets of TODD BENTLEY`S *Operation Money Suck* Today!




    Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

    Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

    2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness

  27. libraryman says:

    Alan,

    Both. Scripture always has authority over experience. Just because I experience something does not mean it is of God. But experience does have a part or we wouldn’t have a testimony. Did you have a salvation “experience”? It may have been more or less dramatic than someone else, but if you are saved, at some time “things” were different. Have you “experienced” answered prayer?

    Experience is Biblical: Eph 3:18-19 AMP
    That you may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints [God’s devoted people, the experience of that love] what is the breadth and length and height and depth [of it]; [That you may really come] to know [practically, through experience for yourselves] the love of Christ, which far surpasses mere knowledge [without experience]; that you may be filled [through all your being] unto all the fullness of God [may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself]!

    Is this crazy stuff going on the Gospel? Well what is meant by the Gospel? If an agreed upon definition is the glad tidings of salvation through Christ then what does salvation contain? Salvation from hell yes but it also means to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction: one (from injury or peril); to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health; to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue;

    Are people being healed and delivered? It appears a lot are. Even Todd wants verification. There “ain’t” know way he wants to document this “thing” with the media without verification. Let’s face it, we are all skeptics to a point. That’s why 1 John 4:1 is written. Even God wants us to check things out. What we need to be careful of is not going over the line like some do saying this “thing” is false miracles and he is a false prophet. How do they know? Scriptures used to support this “opinion” mean zilch if they can be verified.

    If I may, I would like to show you an answer to a question you haven’t asked-unusual manifestations by the people. i.e, the gyrations, falling down etc.

    It has Scriptural precedence:

    John 18:6
    When Jesus said to them, I am He, they went backwards (drew back, lurched backward) and fell to the ground.

    Acts 2:12-15
    And all were beside themselves with amazement and were puzzled and bewildered, saying one to another, what can this mean? But others made a joke of it and derisively said, They are simply drunk and full of sweet [intoxicating] wine. But Peter, standing with the eleven, raised his voice and addressed them: You Jews and all you residents of Jerusalem, let this be [explained] to you so that you will know and understand; listen closely to what I have to say. For these men are not drunk, as you imagine, for it is [only] the third hour (about 9:00 a.m.) of the day; This is where the phrase “drunk in the Spirit” came from.

    Some people don’t feel anything or very little. Some people don’t “fall down”. Some people are more “sensitive” to the Spirit than others. It ain’t right, it ain’t wrong it is what it is. People do not have to fall down or twitch or shake to receive from the Lord.

    Manifestation is defined as a clear appearance such as “a manifestation of great emotion”; a manifest indication of the existence or presence or nature of some person or thing; “a manifestation of healing” which is why people are asked to do “something you couldn’t do before.

    One thing that I know is that God is quite capable of messing up my theology. He told me one time, “this isn’t what this verse means, it’s what you think it means”…

    I have never forgotten that

    LM

  28. Alan Higgins says:

    I am glad that you said Scripture always has authority over experience. If you look at the first video posted by observer, http://youtube.com/watch?v=p9Kv7XRaKw8, many of those people had the same experiences that people at Todds meetings have, yet he was a false prophet. If Satan can make a person think he is saved or spiritual by just having these experiences, he is happy. Why do you think people will be suprised when Jesus says ‘depart from me’. It is because they were doing all the ‘christian stuff’ but there was no repentance and they were deceived by bad doctrine.That is my whole point. Please note that I am not saying that we as christians never have experiences but our experiences can be deceptive and that is why as you said they come second. The devil does signs and wonders as well so how do we discern what is of God and what is not? Satan masquerades himself as an angel of light and that is why doctrine is so important.

    Regarding being slain in the spirit, please show me ONE place in the scriptures where Jesus or any of the disciples or apostles laid there hand on someone, and they were slain in the spirit Benny Hinn or Todd Bentley style. Have a look at http://www.carm.org/questions/slain_spirit.htm where your spiritual precedence of John 18:6 can be refuted. That is another example of eisigesis where you have a theology (ie slain in the spirit) and it is slammed into a text instead of reading the plain meaning of the text.

    Again, there is no where in scripture where people are
    drunk in the spirit. In fact in the scripture you quoted, Peter says they they are NOT drunk. He doesnt even say ‘For these men are not drunk, as you imagine, but they are drunl in the spirit’. Yet another case of eisigesis

    Below is a explantion from another website

    “The so-called drunkenness in the Spirit is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures. Those who promote the laughing revival grossly abuse the passage in Acts chapter 2 in an attempt to prove that the Apostles were drunk in the Spirit on the day of Pentecost. This is nonsense. Those who said the disciples were “full of new wine” were the mockers who wanted to debunk the miracle of tongues which was occurring (Acts 2:13). The mockers did not say the disciples were drunken because they were staggering about and slurred in speech and falling to the ground, but because of the many languages which were used to preach the Gospel that day and because they wanted to slander the apostles. In his reply to these mockers, PETER PLAINLY SAID THEY WERE NOT DRUNKEN (Acts 2:15). In Ephesians 5:18 Paul CONTRASTS drunkenness with the filling of the Spirit. The drunk is not in control of himself but is under the power of a foreign substance. In contrast, the Spirit-filled Christian is entirely in control of himself under the direction of the Holy Spirit. There is absolutely no case in the New Testament of the Lord Jesus Christ or the Apostles or early Christians staggering about in a drunken stupor, unable to attend to necessary duties, as those in the laughing revival are experiencing. THE CHRISTIAN IS COMMANDED TO BE SOBER AT ALL TIMES (1 Thess. 5:6,8; 1 Tim. 3:2,11; Titus 1:8; 2:2,4,6; 1 Pet. 1:13; 4:7; 5:8). If for no other reason, I would reject the laughing revival on this basis alone. “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour” (1 Peter 5:8).

    I think the problem that we have is how you interpret scripture. This is the reason I gave you some basic principles at https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/ten-rules-of-biblical-interpretation because if it is wrongly divided and you do not know it, you are a prime candidate for deception

  29. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    LM, I believe Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal…and Paul mocked the Judaizers – false prophets/teachers with a false message. By the way, I’m from a Pentecostal backrground – Dad’s a pastor and is even on the way to Florida as we speak. I don’t speak as one looking outside, but as one who was once in and got pulled out by God’s sovereign grace.

    Returning my original point, mockery is not the M.O. I’d like to use, but it is Biblical – esp. when we are dealing with a false prophet such as Bentley

  30. Libraryman says:

    Alan,

    There is one basic difference between you and I. I know and have experienced God and it appears that you have a ways to go…..

    LM

    Yes that comment comes across as elitist, but then I knew what to expect here before I started to post. It’s been fun and sad at the same time. May the Lord show up greatly in your life and blows the sides off your box

  31. Alan Higgins says:

    I would also like to know which scripture you will use to defend Todd to say that ‘as a powerful prophetic spirit’ comes on believers they can begin ‘running around barking like a dog or squawking like a chicken’. See http://www.etpv.org/2003/angho.html

    I really would like to know

  32. to everyone who calls upon there GOD. JESUS .
    I have read and understood both sides of this particular argument. This is the first time i have ever posted and i am not particularly computer literate.i am just writing to give you a small piece of my testimony.so please forgive me for the spelling mistakes.

    i have been saved for 7 years praise JESUS.Ican confidently say that being a lover of JESUS i am ever aware of being deceived.(dont judge or stone me yet).after being gloriosly saved and then baptised in theHOLY SPIRIT. i listened to family members who were pentecostal like myself,and i can honestly say that they confused me more and more especially about certain preachers and toronto and brownsville.At this point i was about to give up but i decided to find out for myself and took a trip to toronto church.This is were i first heard of todd.GOD touched me and i found that what my family members were criticising and mocking was actually happening to me a nobody from northern ireland.when i came home i had an even greatar love for JESUS and theWORD OF GOD.Surely this is the fruit in my life.I ask you not to judge yet but see what the fruit of this outpouring is.Surely satan is not going to glorify JESUS and get people truly saved.Do we christians need to again examine what john the baptist did when he found himself in jail and listen to the saviours reply.

    yours in JESUS
    nigel

    p.s i truly believe that this is of GOD .HE is the one being glorified and if in doubt ask JESUS.(luke ch 11 v11-13)

    JESUS CHRIST IS LORD !

  33. Alan Higgins says:

    Nigel, not to take anything away from your experiences but as it has been said before, scripture always trumps experience. Just because a person feels closer to God after an experience does not mean that the actual person is preaching sound doctrine. The only way we can tell if a person is preaching sound doctrine is to hold their teachings up to the light of God’s word. If it is in violation of God’s word, then you have an obligation to reject what that person is saying, no matter what experiences you are feeling. The same goes for me. If anything I say contradicts scripture, then reject what I am saying too. Jesus will NEVER contradict his word. I hope you understand.

    I would be interested to know how God touched you or what exactly was the thing that convinced you that it was God?

    Thanks for visiting by the way

    Alan

  34. Libraryman says:

    Hey Nigel,

    thanks for the input. It was getting lonely over here on “enemy lines”. I may or may not post after this one. Maybe I will just be an observer…..whatever the Lord wants me to do. Usually I don’t post on sites like this one because no one usually changes their views and the possibility of strife increasing is always there.

    You and I went to similar events, suspending judgment and came away changed. No one is going to convince us otherwise. To be told that somehow we are deceived and we don’t know what we are talking about come across as somewhat condescending. Like we’re not used to that.

    It has been said that Scripture has authority over experience. We know that. What seems to be coming across here though is that experience has no place at all only Scripture. As we know, there will be times that Scripture does not explicitly state whatever……For example, we talk about the rapture but the word is not in Scripture.

    What is really the most important is love needs to be always in operation. If it is not, we are like a clanging cymbal. There seems to be a lot of clanging going on at times.

    Phariseeism is always going to happen. Jesus always spoke the truth to these religious folk. He kept speaking the truth in love. Of course, it only got Him killed.

    But, if Nicodemus and I were changed there will be always hope for others

    Let the stones fly….I have my helmet on

    Nice talking with you Nigel

    LM

  35. Bob says:

    You guys have no idea how much of God you are missing out on. I used to be a dry church pastor. We must look to the Bible to see that Jesus said, ‘by their fruit you will know them.’ Every night hundreds of people are getting saved at the Florida Revival. Question – When is the last time any of us led any one to Christ?

    God continue to bless you and work through you Todd.

  36. Alan Higgins says:

    I have every idea of how much of ‘God’ I am missing as this is nothing new and I have been to these type of meetings before

    I will repeat my previous comment in regards to ‘by their fruit you will know them.’

    “I’m glad you mentioned that scripture so lets look at it in context shall we

    Matthew 7

    15 “BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

    How do you know what their fruit is? By their doctrine? How do you know their doctrine? By lining it up with scripture like the Bereans (Acts 17:11) and not just swallowing it up because the name of Jesus is mentioned”

    Romans 16:17 makes it very clear

    Now I beseech you, brethren, MARK THEM which cause divisions and offences CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE which ye have learned; and AVOID THEM.

  37. Bob says:

    What if the doctrine you have learned is wrong! And now you are avoiding the real thing and therefore God?

  38. Alan Higgins says:

    You are 100% right. If the doctrine that I have learned is wrong, I would like someone (or yourself) to show me FROM SCRIPTURE.

    This is the reason I keep stressing that we should have some basic rules of how to interpret the bible. Thats why I posted the link https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/10/24/ten-rules-of-biblical-interpretation
    I believe that will save a lot of people from being deceived. I keep stressing that just because a person mentions the name of Jesus and throws scriptures out there (normally twisted or out of context), does not mean that it is from God.

  39. LaVrai says:

    Not to cause division (although the Gospel is offensive, nonetheless), but we all know based on the Holy Scriptures that Jesus explicitly told HIS disciples (which include us) “…many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many (Matthew 24:5).”

    Since we know that without the shadow of a doubt that Satan will deceive many leading up the to the time of the LORD’s glorious return, isn’t it possible that it is the folks flocking to this ‘outpouring’ are the ones Christ Jesus was speaking of?

    Christ Jesus also added in Matthew 24:

    23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. … 26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.”

    I pose this question to you all defending these signs and wonders at this ‘revival’: How do you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you brothers and sisters of the faith are not one of these who have been deceived as our LORD and Saviour Jesus Christ said would be by “great signs and wonders” shown by “false christs and false prophets”?

    And, Todd, you wrote: “You guys have no idea how much of God you are missing out on. I used to be a dry church pastor.”

    Who was responsible for you being a ‘dry church pastor’ and what made it so dry? Also, what is it that we who resist these works are ‘missing out on?’ — Am I missing out on growing closer to the LORD…or am I missing out on some type of experience? For I don’t seek experiences, Todd, I seek to fulfill the FATHER’s will in helping to teach the True Gospel. I do not seek angels. I seek Christ. I do not seek miracles or visions. I seek to obey the FATHER’s will.

    Aren’t any of you concerned that these men are elevating themselves to Christ Jesus’ place, which is a sin. Pretty soon they will be claiming to be Jesus or to know where he is and many of us will go in droves…eager to see with our eyes and hear with our ears… instead of having faith in our invisible GOD.

  40. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    Y’know Bros. Alan and LaVrai, I can’t help but notice that there is no teaching of any form coming out of this “revival”. It’s really good to keep those ten rules of hermeneutics in rotation, since all someone needs to do is look at the message coming out of Bentley’s mouth and see how many of these rules he observes/breaks.

    In response to Bob, if I have gotten it wrong, then please don’t point me to an experience which with time will fade away [1 Cor 13:8-10] – please point me to the Bible, the Word of God which will never pass away [Isaiah 40:6-8; 1 Peter 1:22-25]. I left all that, because it was so fleeting.

  41. nathan wells says:

    guys who are we to judge, all you lot are doing is putting yourself in GODS chair and judgeing and making up your own minds what is off GOD or not, you need to seek GOD before you make up your minds, Yes the preachers on GOD tv make mistakes and say the wrong things, there own greed and wrong doings come up, but so do mine and so do yours, only jesus was perfect and you need to look pass the human mistakes and look at the fruit, healings miracles and most off all people being saved………

  42. Alan Higgins says:

    Nathan, in regards to judging, please watch the video at https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/judge-not/

    Everybody is going on about healing miracles and the fruit but what about their doctrine. I dont hear many of the defenders of Todd talking about that

  43. libraryman says:

    As I was thinking about most of the posts here and the preoccupation with labels such as false prophet, false miracles, this is being said, this isn’t being said and “stuff” being thrown around, I was wondering what the core issue is here. I no sooner had asked myself this question when the Lord told me it was fear. The fear of being deceived. This fear is causing unbelief.

    Fear is not from God. 2 Tim 1:7 “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”

    Since fear is not of God then it must be the enemy. However, we can command fear to leave because we have been given authority and power over the enemy
    (Luke 10:19 AMP).

    Jude 24 says that Jesus is “able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy”.

    When I have found myself in situations that I don’t understand I ask the Lord to show me what is going on. I trust Him to keep me safe as I examine what is happening.

    Without fear and unbelief being dealt with, it is nearly impossible for folks to move on into God. Unbelief also hindered people in Jesus day to receive the miracles that Jesus could do while He was here (Mark 6).

    We have been sent out by Jesus to continue what He did:

    “And as you go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand! Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely (without pay) you have received, freely (without charge) give.”

    Without fear and unbelief “pushed out of the way”and replaced with a teachable spirit (by asking and receiving it from the Lord), any attempt to “show you where the Bible says that” or answer any of the questions that some have to their satisfaction will be fruitless and quite frankly a waste of everyones time.

    An open and cordial debate is one thing, arguing is another.

    Like Jesus said, “And wherever they do not receive and accept and welcome you, when you leave that (blog) shake off [even] the dust from your feet…”

    LM

  44. Rick says:

    Hey, Im not a christain but im trying to be 1
    its hard for me
    cos my freinds aren’t christains
    any advice?
    Thanks
    \_ Rick

  45. Michael Rial says:

    You Should Not belive in your freinds, but above, make new freinds, pray on youre bed or even your floor if u want, remember, its up 2 u, People may not like christains, others do but 1 thing for sure i do like christans

    \_ Michael

    Tip: Dont listen to bullies, its whats inside you!

  46. Alan Higgins says:

    I dont fear being deceive at all. Why should I? I only have something to fear if I do not have the correct instructions. We have the correct instructions through scripture (yes I know I sound like a broken record) but it seems as if you do not have a high view of sound doctrine. This is not about me ‘being right’ or winning an argument but about us seeing what the bible says on a matter and submitting to it

  47. Alan Higgins says:

    Rick, read https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/a-message-to-non-christians

    You can also email me at alanhiggins (at) hotmail.com

  48. Alan Higgins says:

    In fact, LM, for now lets put all the experiential stuff aside and let look at doctrine shall we? Could you please answer comment 32

  49. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    Well, Bro. Alan, it is official – whatever Bentley has got, he’s somehow passed it onto my Dad who got back sometime this morning 😦 I got home this afternoon around 2pm from college. From that time until now, he’s been up in his and my mum’s bedroom, laughing hysterically. I like the occasional afternoon nap every now and again, but I’m legitimately scared to sleep when he’s in a state like this. He’s at work, but Bro. Alan, to be honest, I’m really worried for him. I don’t know with what power Bentley is doing what he is – whatever he is using, I’m not comfortable with it, both from a Biblical and an experiential perspective

  50. Alan Higgins says:

    Oh no. That doesnt sound good at all. I cant lie, I did laugh at your comment ‘From that time until now, he’s been up in his and my mum’s bedroom, laughing hysterically’. Forgive me as there is the serious side to this. I am doing separate post on these type of teachers tomorrow because if nothing is said, it could become epidemic and become the church norm

  51. Alan Higgins says:

    Oh no. That doesnt sound good at all. I cant lie, I did laugh at your comment ‘From that time until now, he’s been up in his and my mum’s bedroom, laughing hysterically’. Forgive me as there is the serious side to this. I am doing separate post on these type of teachers tomorrow because if nothing is said, it could become epidemic and become the church norm

  52. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    I don’t blame you – it is rather amusing until you remember the root of it all. I wonder if he’s doing this on the night shift at work now…

    Looking forward to your post Bro. Alan

  53. fake says:

    If anyone belives this website, this website is the antichrist, becuase the words miss the lips in the clips. 🙂 Jesus Jesus Jesus, plus God tv uses the blessed name Jesus.

  54. hiya everyone
    greetings from an unusually sunny ireland
    sorry alan i havent replied to your question.
    libraryman hiya(my spelling can be awfull)
    dear alan may the LORD JESUS bless you mightily.you asked what experiences i had.this is all i will say,that the very thing that i didnt want to do i was doing.you mentioned people barking like dogs and stuff.can i say that these things had been mentioned to me.this is grossly exagerated and for people acting like chickens i can see wher this description has come from.most opposition according to reliable sources came from britain and less than 0.2% percent of people acted like this.i wonder if you have read the history of revivals from the manuscripts of george whitfield.two brothers who founded the methodist church charles and john weselywho held the same views but then changed there minds after seeing the fruit in peoples lives and when they found themselves doing the same.GOD is AWESOME ,hypothetically speaking,if you wher employed by a bank to spot counterfit bank notes would you study the false to spot the true or would you be so familiar with the true that the false would stick out like a swollen thumb.JESUS said that he came togive life and that more abundatly.matt7v1.the law of sowing and reaping applies in all GODS KINGDOM rememker who is the king of this domain JESUS.if we pigeonhole people by how we see them(judging them)then thats all we will ever see in them.GOD is not the author of confusion.when i read certain posts i can feel the enemy trying to sow seeds of doubt but having known in whom i have believed and am persuaded that he is able to keep me i praise GOD FOR THE VICTORY OF THE CROSS OF CHRIST MY SAVIOUR AND MY REDEMTION IN HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD.im not knocking you but have you ever observed a demon manifesting .they manifest whilst people are praisig GOD.they go crazy at the mention of the NAME OF JESUS AND THE POWER OF HIS BLOOD.let me finish with this, satan doesnt want the gospel preached ,the deaf to hear,the lame to walk,he wants to kill to steal and to destroy.as an nonchelant christian thinking of giving up,GOD touched me as i mentioned before,now i am at this time wearing a blue t-shirt,please do not try to convince me its red.

  55. Alan Higgins says:

    Thanks for your reply Nigel and for being gracious in your reply. I think your quote “f you wher employed by a bank to spot counterfit bank notes would you study the false to spot the true or would you be so familiar with the true that the false would stick out like a swollen thumb” sums it all up. In order to fully know the truth, we have to have scripture and SCRIPTURE ALONE as the final authority and NOT experiences. Yes we can learn from men of the past but it should never be the final authority. There is nothing wrong with judging. (See https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/judge-not/) In fact, in order to tell a person that they are judging, that person has made a judgment to come to that conclusion. If Satan masquerades himself as a angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)and false prophets will do signs and wonders to deceive, then he can make the deaf to hear and lame to walk. I cannot convince you of anything but all I ask is that you do not let your experiences blind you to sound doctrine. I have had ‘experiences’ in the past and when I look back now, I can say that God was not in it and it was either my flesh or the devil. If you get a chnace, look at the people who have had experinces at https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/what-does-the-bible-say-about-benny-hinn/

    God bless you

    Alan

  56. dear alan
    may i congratulate you on this site.i have read a few other colums or articles and agree completely.i think we are singing off the same hymn sheet but maybe a different tune .GOD be praised ,i agreed with your article on the church mafia.in this country ,being irish we are naturally wary and having received superb teaching from ny spiritual fathers this would not be tolerated in this small country.however we have enough problems i assume you are aware of these.i must complement you on your sincerity.others i feel ,who are of the

    same opinion as myself concerning what is happening in florida are being a little condescending and i apologize sincerly and ask you to forgive me if i have come across like this or offended you inany way.
    let me also say that my friends are going, however as my wife is due with a child today i feel this would be inapropriate.i agree with you and experience will never overtake the infalable WORD OF GOD .with this in mind i will not be arguing with you anymore concerning this as this does not edify.i bless you in the name of our LORD JESUS CHRIST and although we may disagree concerning the florida outpouring and various other things ,the foundational truth of christianity we both agree on(having read your statement of faith) yours in CHRIST nigel

  57. Alan Higgins says:

    Thankyou for your comments and like you said, as long as we can agree on the foundations, we can agree to disagree. I pray that you wife has a safe delivery and may God bless you and your family

    Your brother in Christ

    Alan

  58. Danny says:

    Alan,can you tell us where in scripture it says scripture alone,surely Paul teaches to the contrary

  59. Danny says:

    Alan ,apologies ,I am referring to
    1 Cor 11v2
    2Tim 1v13-14
    2thes 2v15
    2Tim v1-2
    You should also check out
    2 John v12
    2 peter1 v2o-21

    God Bless You all

  60. Alan Higgins says:

    Danny, I have read those scriptures and cannot se a contradiction. Can you expand on what you mean? Paul said in 2 Timothy 3:16-17

    ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

  61. Danny says:

    Paul is clearly stating that there are oral instructions as well as a written instructions to believers.Scripture is a tool to equip us as believers, but it is not the only one, you must read the scriptures in their totality,John ch 20 tells us that not all that Jesus did or said was written down,in fact Jesus ,although he could write, never told anybody to write down anything.What did the early Christian church do between 30 AD and the writing down of the first gospel circa 70 AD.
    Paul is telling Timothy Keep as your pattern the sound teachings that you have HEARD from me.
    can you show me anywhere in scripture where it says scripture alone,I know that you wont find it,because it isn’t there.

  62. Alan Higgins says:

    There is no explicit verse that says ‘scripture alone’ but as you said, we do have to read the scriptures in their totality. If you read 2 Peter 3:15-16, Peter affirms what Paul says

    “and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, AS THEY DO ALSO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURES.

    Peter does not say that we can believe Pauls words over scripture. If you look at Acts 17:11, the Bereans checked out scripture first to see if what Paul said was true. If they could just go by Paul’s words alone, why would they need to check the scriptures. So the things that Timothy heard from Paul were not contrary to scripture. Remember it was Paul who wrote to Timothy “ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

    It was Paul who wrote to Timothy “Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH”

  63. Danny says:

    All scripture is given by God, but nowhere in scripture does it say that scripture alone is the only thing that is profitable,in fact the idea of scripture alone is unscriptural,Paul says in I cor ch 11 Take me as your pattern as I take Christ for mine,which is a do as I do instruction,he then congratulates the Corinthians for MAINTAINING THE TRADITIONS,that he had passed on to them.The second letter to the thessalonians states ” stand firm ,then brothers,and KEEP THE TRADITIONS THAT WE TAUGHT YOU, WHETHER BY WORD OF MOUTH OR BY LETTER”

  64. Alan Higgins says:

    Ok, let me make myself clear. Each culture has its own traditions. For example, in Scotland, they may wear kilts. Does that mean that the tradition of wearing a kilt is sinful because it has passed down generations yet is not mentioned in the bible? Of course not so I am not saying that traditions etc cannot be adhered to. It is when those traditions are CONTRARY to scripture that we have to draw the line. So even if Paul passed down traditions, they were not contrary to scripture.

  65. Danny says:

    ok Alan we are talking about by word of mouth or letter,therefore there must have been a tradition,What did the first Christians do when they did not have a new testament.incidently in John ch 10 v22 Jesus was in the temple for the feast of dedication,where in scripture does it tell anyone to keep this feast,the only place I can find is in the apocryphal book of Maccabees,but Jesus must have known,otherwise he would not have done it.How did he know,he was doing something which by your reckoning was unscriptural.
    You refer to wearing kilts as tradition,it is certainly cultural,but either you are missing the point ,or you are only seeing what you want to see.The tradition that Paul was talking about was a faith tradition,Paul was addressing Greeks in Corinth and Thessalonika,so to suggest he was trying to force them into accepting some sort of Jewish clothing or other jewish national tradition is way off the mark .
    By the way who decided which scripture should go in the bible,if it is all profitable,who had the authority to decide.

  66. Danny says:

    Alan ,could you also show me the Trinity in scripture,It has been passed on as a tradition.

  67. Lee says:

    Danny,

    I’ll jump in this discussion. Here’s the Trinity in scripture:

    13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

  68. Lee says:

    Sorry, I left off the scripture reference for the above. It’s Ephesians 1:13-14.

  69. Lee says:

    Going back up to LaVrai’s post [#40] above, I wanted to point out that the NT Greek word for ‘Christ’ also means, ‘anointed:’

    http://www.studylight.org/isb/view.cgi?number=5547

    Given that Bentley’s main focus according to a CBN interview…

    http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/370291.aspx

    …is to ‘give away the impartation’ or ‘anointing’ — could the Matthew 24:23 scripture apply?

  70. Alan Higgins says:

    Danny in regards to the trinity please see https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2007/12/04/is-jesus-god/. If you want to carry on a discussion about the trinity, please carry on on that post and not this one.

    I am at work so will answer your other comment later

  71. Alan Higgins says:

    In response to the question ‘What did the first Christians do when they did not have a new testament?’. check out Acts 17:11

    In regards to my kilt anaolgy, I was not making a statement about ‘clothing’ but just about traditions in general. Now that you have clarified that you are talking about a faith tradition, again, his faith traditions were not contrary to scripture

    Again, if you want to know how we got our bible, please check out the series which starts at https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/04/13/how-we-got-our-bible-parts-11-12/ and add any comments pertaining to that on that post

  72. citizen says:

    you don’t need a bible verse to discern that these creepy guys are all a bunch of shysters. just watch them on tv! honestly, if anyone tells me they’re a christian, the first thing i do is check my pockets to make sure nothing’s missing.

  73. Danny says:

    Lee it mentions the three Persons of the Trinity,but does not say that they are one,I was not wanting to open a discussion on this, i merely use it as an example of a Tradition that has been handed down,Not all people who profess Christianity,Unitarians for example,believe it,and some well known televangelists ,TD Jakes for 1.

    Because it does not mention 3 in 1,it leaves it open to suggest that it is an interpretation of a scripture,who has authority to interpret,my interpretation will be different than yours, and we cant be both right,thatis why there are over 30,000, different Christian denominations in the USA alone.so much for Jn ch17 v21.

  74. Daniel says:

    Joel 2 says he will pour out his Spirit on all men, young men will dream, sons and daughters will prophecy. Isn’t that the context within which the false prophets are forewarned? Isn’t it likely that someone, under the presence of the God who parted the Red Sea, might get a bit wobbly, or weep, or laugh? Doesn’t that qualify “These men are not drunk as you suppose.” in Acts?

    Doesn’t this rigid insistence on the conventional interpretation of the word mimic that of the Pharisees, who missed the point by being blinded to the move of God for the sake of his words, which they never understood?

    Isn’t the root of this visceral objection to what’s happening a fear of being led astray and a subsequent remembrance of verses that you can use to support your case? Didn’t the Devil himself use Scripture to tempt Jesus away from the truth? Wouldn’t action predicated on fear probably not be from God, and shouldn’t that action be replaced by one decided upon with the guidance of the Spirit, whom Jesus called the Counselor?

    How would you explain my experience, then? I had no part in this movement (still do not, actually), yet was comfortable in my drug-addicted alcoholic secular stupor. Over the course of my falling away, I felt faint tugs back towards the faith but pulled them away and pushed them down with the same attitude I see in those who are bashing this movement. There was something inside me, but I dismissed it, with logic that was my own, not God’s, as I see many of you doing here. I love you all, I’m just calling it like I’m seeing it, I hope you don’t take offense.

    However, one night, God visited me in a powerful way. It was not random, but was led up into, a slow idealogical reformation that was taking place within me over the course of the year or so before it happened. That night, I suddenly became aware of my spirit, and that it was being afflicted by a spirit/demon/whatever you want to call it of drug addiction. I didn’t know what to do, but God said (not audibly, just a sense in my spirit, laugh it off if you’re never experienced it, but once you’ve had it happen, you know, and it’s undeniable), “These are not the plans I have for you, but it’s your choice.” When I responded that I wanted what he had for me, I convulsed forward, and the oppression I felt left, replaced by a peace I’d never felt before. And I began to speak in tongues. God continued to speak to me, and laid a charge on my life, specific to the talents, gifts, and burdens of the heart that I have.

    How does that fit into this I’d like to hear? I’m not easily offended, please speak from the heart. I’ve heard from many secular people who, after hearing my story, laugh me off as psychologically delusional, schizophrenic, or something similar.

    By the way, I’m not saying logic is bad. I’m just saying there’s a high propensity for it to go awry when God isn’t involved in it being built. It’s a slippery slope, one I’ve been all over, but we simply don’t have the wherewithall to make decisions, even when sometimes think we’re doing what God would have us do.

    God bless.

  75. Daniel says:

    I forgot to specify my comment towards the “revival” itself.

    I see flaws in Todd. … I also see miracles, and I feel confirmation in my spirit that what he is doing is of God. I see people being under the power of the Spirit in the same way that I have been under the power of the Spirit, and not at some televangelist conference either. It being on TV puts a whole twist on things, but don’t judge the man, judge the fruit.

    He has a propensity for showmanship, but there are thousands of absolutely hungry people at each meeting… why wouldn’t God be there, meeting them? It’s a testament to God that he uses flawed humans to be his vessels…

    Please don’t flip that and say “you can use that argument and say that god is flowing through anyone…” Let’s stick to the point. Is what is happening biblical? Yes. Does something that is not specifically mentioned in the bible happening mean it is not from God? No, not if it maintains the Spirit of God as evinced by the works he performed in the Bible, which all of this does.

    Do some people fake? Yes. Does that mean all of them do? No.

    K, done here haha.

  76. Danny says:

    Daniel ,have another read at Matthew ch 24,even the elect can be deceived. Jesus will use whomsoever He chooses,but not everyone who claims to be of Christ is,satan is the prince of this world and his fallen angels are working overtime at the moment,to deceive God’s people.I am not going to judge anyone,I am just asking people to be careful ,their immortal souls are at stake.I have not read in the bible or elsewhere about being slain in the spirit,whose spirit or what spirit.

  77. Daniel says:

    I’ve never been “slain in the spirit,” but I sure have been close. God doesn’t break down doors, and that moniker is, perhaps, unfortunate, but I have felt so strongly the presence of God that I would step backwards, stumble a bit under its power. Surely if I were as accepting and open as the people on the stage on godtv, I would fall down. It comes from openness, God comes in as much as you let him.

    I have been immobilized before, I lay on my bed one night and God spoke to me, after delivering me from similar demonic oppression to the one mentioned above, for the first time in many years. I could have pushed it away, and gotten up, but I just lay there, soaking it in. It would have taken a serious effort to regain my perspective and operate normally again, although I can say that after being in his presence like that, operating “normally” again feels strangely blunt. Like I’m closed to being as attuned to my spirit as I could be and as God would surely want me to be.

    The scripture gives numerous accounts of visions and words given and the like. Just because it doesn’t step into the digression of “And his presence was felt so strongly that [insert whomever here] could not stand.” doesn’t mean it’s not the way someone would react to God.

  78. Kevin says:

    I don’t usually waste time with posting in forums, but I need to ask a question to Alan in post #29. You said that satan comes as an angel of light and does signs and wonders. Do you believe that satan will heal deaf ears, blind eyes, tumors, bad backs, etc? f you do, I would like to see scriptural proof that. Signs and wonders can be anything that amazes. All signs and wonders are not good. So yes satan can do signs and wonders with his limited power, but I see no where in scripture that it says he will heal people. In fact the last time I checked the word tells us that he came to steal, kill and destroy.
    At some point you also said this was no service because Todd was not preaching the Word. Todd himself stated one night that this was not a service, it was a healing move of God as a direct result of the hunger and praise of His people. What do you call a service anyway? Three songs, pass the plate, read 7 scriptures, “preach” 20 minutes and get out before the other churches and head to the steakhouse? I can’t imagine the apostles having a “regimented” service like most churches do today. Am I crazy about everything Todd says or every action he makes? No. Can’t say as I have ever been crazy about everything any one person has ever said or done. Are there false prophets out there? Yes. are there judgmental, hypocritical pharisees out there? Yes.
    You stated we are to be known by our fruit which is dead on. What is the fruit of these meetings? Forget about how you think someone should act – shaking or non-shaking. Forget your definition of a service. Forget about the angel hang-up – I know there are only 291 mentions of the word angel in the Bible – both good and bad. As long as he isn’t worshipping the angels, I could care less how much he talks about them. I bet you don’t care for a tattoed ex-con with a Harley Davidson t-shirt preaching the Word either do you? What IS the fruit? Salvations? Healings? The prodigal sons and daughters returning to their First Love? Praise and worship to GOD for 90 – 120 minutes every night? Testimonies? Addictions broken? The overwhelming presence of the Holy Spirit? Yeah, after reading all that horrible stuff that is happening in Lakeland, I can see where this is a false prophet working in tandem with satan and leading people astray – n o t!
    There’s your seven points, but i don’t have a poem for you, so this is also not a”service”. I used to be where you are at right now. Then I actually decided to let God be God and not make Him fit in my box. I know it’s God moving because He has never moved contrary to His Word in my life. He has done things that have challenged my mind, will and emotions, but He has never let me down as long as I’m willing to be obedient. Are some of these people who come up on the platform “faking” it? I would say so, but that’s not Todd’s fault. It’s their faith that makes them whole – not Todd’s. Todd has never said that he healed anyone. He has always thanked God and pointed to God, but he does have the faith to believe God can and will do it. I couldn’t imagine having someone pray for me who didn’t have faith, but it has to be the faith that not only can He do it, but that He wants to and He will.
    You said you came up in a pentecostal home. Right now, you sound as though you prayed for someone or something that was very important to you and you didn’t get the answer you wanted. You aren’t exactly bitter at God, but you no longer want to hear about “faith” preachers or uncontrolled moves of God because somehow you wonder if the reason your prayer didn’t get answered was because you lacked faith or you stepped out and took the chance on believing for what the world says is “impossible” and it didn’t work out for you. So now it’s easier to say anyone or any event that demonstrates the living power of God is un-scriptural. That way it all fits into a neat little box with nice crisp corners and a tight lid that leaves no room for experience or self doubt. I agree that if an experience is blatantly contrary to the Word – whether it be falsehood, hurtful or deceiving – it cannot be trusted and is wrong. I also believe that a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument (as long as that experience does not go contrary to the scripture).
    I’m fine with you proving everything I said above wrong – although I don’t think you can (excluding my thoughts about why you have the view that you have about the power of God and effects of the Holy Spirit), because like I said, I was once where you are. It doesn’t matter if you believe me when I say that, but I know if you stop trying to “win” an argument, forget about what makes you uncomfortable in the flesh and just be still and ask God to confirm whether or not this is real, your opinion will change. Again, are some of the people who go on the platform fake – yes, but the genuine outnumber the imitations.
    Take this post however you choose, but you need to let God speak to you specifically about the revival. Everything that happens there may not “fit” into you personality, but I have no doubt He will confirm that He is moving and not satan. If Todd or one of the other people leading the morning studies, etc do something totally wrong and against the will of God, Gd will shut this down in a heartbeat – but it still won’t take away from the salvations and healings that have already taken place or the power of God that is moving in the churches of people/pastors whose spirit has been stirred by the revival.

    Kevin

  79. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    A wise preacher once said that if the Devil were to take over a town, he’d drop the crime rate, eradicate poverty rates and pretty much make the place an ideal city to live.

    Why? Because he wants to be seen as a better “god” than the Lord. Y’see, these happenings may well be good, but are they encouraging people to get into their Bibles and into sound doctrine? Well, no – Bentley doesn’t know the first thing about doctrine, let alone tell others to get into it.

    Using the excuse of “the Lord spoke to me” quite frankly doesn’t wash, because he would never say anything which contravenes His Word – and everything Bentley is saying is cutting at a 90-degree angle to the Word. Then again, I’m only 17 years old…what could I know?

  80. Daniel says:

    He’s not cutting against the word…

    Maybe the devil would make a city the ideal place to live, but with the intention of imposing a contentedness and a solidity away from god that would take the focus on god and the hunger for him away from the people that lived there. Everything that’s happening in Florida is leading people to pursue an even more intimate relationship with God.

    Even in a situation like those with Benny Hinn, whose showmanship I do not by any means agree with, do you think that God, with the thousands of people there, clearly hungry for Him, wouldn’t show up and meet them there because the guy running the services yells the word “fire” too loudly for a conservative’s taste?

    You’re 17, far too young to be writing this off completely. Why don’t you go down and see for yourself? Eliminate the ease of bias that the tv gives you, and see if you feel God there.

  81. Alan Higgins says:

    Where do I start?

    @Kevin If you look at some witchcraft people they seem to perform ‘healings’. You only have to look at the back of some papers. Does that mean it was from God? If Satan can turn a stick into a snake why cant he perform healings if it will divert attention away from Christ. Also where did I say ‘this was no service because Todd was not preaching the Word’. To be honest, I have no real problem with his look but its his doctrine that concerns me

    You also say that ‘If Todd or one of the other people leading the morning studies, etc do something totally wrong and against the will of God, God will shut this down in a heartbeat’. This is not true because the bible makes it very clear that he will allow deception to go on in the last days and hat deception will be one of the signs not an endtime revival

    Now am i saying that God in his grace may allow healings? He may do or he may not. I dont know but what I do know is that a lot of Todd’s doctrine is not biblical

    Reading most of the comments the summary of what I am seeing is pragmatism (https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/the-problem-with-pragmatism/) where the end justifies the means. The doctrine is not highly important but the experiences justify the method that Todd uses even if it is not biblical. This is SO DANGEROUS. I encourage you to listen to https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/is-your-pastor-a-bible-teacher-or-a-philosopher/ where it touches on ‘the fruit’ that so many people are telling me to look at

  82. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    @Daniel,

    They ain’t hungry for God – they’re hungry for an experience which appeals to their flesh. Fact is, if I offered those people an intensive Bible conference or a healing revival, they’d choose the revival as that is where their heart is. Is it drawing them closer to God? Without a Bible-centred focus, not it isn’t.

    Might I add that I am the son of a Pentecostal preacher. I have been “slain in the Spirit”, and experienced quite a lot of weird things in my 17 years. When people tell me I’m too young to write if off, it only makes their case look more ludicrous. If at 17, I can tell something is off and you [an adult] can’t, then what do I know that you don’t? Just some food for thought

  83. Daniel says:

    I’m not saying you’re too young to make an educated guess and to have an opinion, but you clearly don’t realize how much you will develop over the next several years of your life. A lot can change. And I’m 19.

    I understand a lot of people are in it for the experience, and a lot of people are seeking the healings, but that does necessitate that God isn’t moving?

    If you offered me a bible study or an immersion in God’s presence, I’d take God’s presence any day. Being in God’s presence makes me more hungry for the Bible than anything else anyway, and enlightens me to the life within it. It would draw me closer to the character of the writer of the Word, and thus allow me to better understand the message behind the words.

    Why does your dad laughing after coming back from the conference concern you so much? In my experience, the uneasiness people feel about such things is usually the result of a personal experience which leads to a stronghold (biblical) of thought that people put in place to protect themselves, without realizing the truth, the result of some past pain. Within such a stronghold, logic surely exists, but all logic is relative to the construct within which it is applied, and therefore the only true logic is the one that is fully under the construct of God, who shatters all other constructs. You can say “It’s under the construct of the Bible, and therefore of God,” but that doesn’t change that perhaps a misunderstanding is there due to the stronghold you have, a stronghold only God can break through.

    Reading the Bible needs to be facilitated by the Spirit, there’s too much room for misinterpretation to allow otherwise.

  84. Daniel says:

    PS if you can, watch Rodney Howard-Browne’s The Great Awakening Tour thing, I’d like to hear your guys’ thoughts on it. Last one I watched started out with very biblically based preaching, and then the spirit fell so he just began to minister. I agree with this style much more than Bentley’s, although I have yet to see Bentley in this type of venue. Also, if anyone’s interested in discussing things more efficiently, instead of via this annoyingly limited medium, you can IM me at ovationthps on AOL Instant Messenger.

  85. Kevin says:

    Alan,

    To say that satan turned a stick into a snake – one of his own – and satan doing a healing are on extremely opposite ends of the spectrum. So lets say you think satan would and could heal someone in order to deceive them, we keep getting all the false prophet, rightly dividing the Word, etc versus – where is one verse that satan healed someone? Where is it that his actions called people to Jesus and led people to salvation? I’ve just never read, seen or heard of satan bringing good to anyone.

    Douglas,

    To say that people would choose revival over an intensive Bible conference, I guess it would depend whether the one doing the Bible conference was qualified and will it be discussing Lamentations or Acts. Do people like what appeals to their flesh, yes. We are to walk in/by the leading of the Holy Spirit and not follow the flesh, but anyone who says they never please the flesh would be a liar. Everyone does in different areas of their life. I guess that’s where the “experience” comments come from, but that doesn’t mean that everyone seeks the pleasure of the flesh before the presence of God. They can actually happen at the same time. A person can be in God’s presence and “feel” great at the same time. Actually, how could anyone who claims to be a Christian be in God’s presence and not “feel” great. If being in the presence of the Creator does not make one ‘feel” wonderful, then I would say that particular “sheep” does not actually know the Shepherd. The feeling does not make the presence or power any less real. We don’t seek the “feeling” or His hand, but we seek His face. As far as you being 17 and “knowing this is off”, I can’t really give a response to that other than the fact that I know it’s not off and I guess that will just have to be a matter of different opinions. What has to happen or how long does it have to go before it gets your seal of approval? Do they need to cut the praise & worship short, stop praying for healings and preach for 3 hours? I’m just amazed that anyone thinks that any man or even satan himself (seems like he gets the credit for much more power than he has) could keep something like this going 40+ days. There is not a single ministry in the world that has the marketing department, staff or influence to get thousands of people to show up night after night from all over the world. No Baptist, Pentecostal, Catholic, Non-denominational or any non-Christ centered religion. Otherwise someone would have already done this. I’m sure you have seen a few things in your 17 years and I’ve seen just a couple in my 36 from the congregation and from leadership. I also had some “experiences” (which don’t seem to be important) while in Cuba, so I’m guessing that I “might” be able to recognize God just as well as you.

    I realize that there is probably nothing that I can say or that can happen at the revival that will convince either of you that this is not some demonic false prophet preaching a false religion. I also realize that if the guy God used in a revival had a 3 piece suit, Masters in Theology, lived on $50 bucks a week, had never been in trouble, stayed sick in his body constantly and didn’t believe angels ever protected or helped us; there would be someone who would say he is a false prophet leading men astray. He could dress right and proper, be theologically sound, poor- because money is evil, lived perfect because the past is always there for people to judge us on, sick because healing was for “Bible times” (someone just failed to tell me the the Book of Acts actually ended, I missed that Amen at the end), and never believing that God gives angels charge over us (Psalm 91:11 – 12), but it wouldn’t make everyone happy and that’s just life as we know it in this fallen world.

    I don’t doubt the genuine love of God that either of you have and I don’t doubt the sincerity or purpose behind your comments. I will just say the same thing I said at 1 am this morning, don’t pre-determine God’s answer, but simply be still, block out the world, traditions and personal opinions and ask God if this is Him or not. You may get surprised.

  86. Lee says:

    Kevin,

    Given that Satan can curse/afflict, can he not undo this same curse/affliction toward his own end?

  87. Alan Higgins says:

    Kevin, you ask where is the one verse that Satan heals someone? Lets here it from a false prophets own mouth. Check out the video below from Marjoe Gortner

    And also Peter Popoff

    No doubt people said they were ‘healed’ in their conferences and they ‘fell under the power of God’. No doubt people had ‘experiences’ but Marjoe confessed that he didnt even believe in God and this is my exact point. This is a classic example of all the stuff that we see Benny Hinn and Todd Bentley do so dont be fooled into thinking that just because these things happen at meetings, that God is in it

  88. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    @Daniel,

    Firstly, I posed a scenario, and already you are acting out my thoughts exactly…even when Scripture says otherwise. In 2 Peter 1, Peter makes it clear that He has been with the incarnate Word of God, Jesus Christ. He had served with Him, eaten with Him, slept alongside Him, yet Peter still said, We have a more certain of prophecy – 2 Peter 1:21 cf. v.19

    As to why my dad’s behaviour worries me – well I dunno, he’s my father! I’m worried about him, since this is having an adverse effect on his life, not bettering it. God wouldn’t cause my father to be banned from work until he sorts himself out, thrown out of a courtroom and sleeping on the sofa, because he is annoying seven shades out of my mum.

    @Kevin,

    Please do not attempt to elevate one portion of God’s Word above another, with comments like “I guess it would depend whether the one doing the Bible conference was qualified and will it be discussing Lamentations or Acts.” It is all the Word of God – you didn’t write it, so you can’t elevate one portion to another. Do some passages appeal more to others? Sure – I’m big on the Epistles, while my Mum loves the Psalms – however we don’t ignore the rest of the Bible as being irrelevant to our lives, since their subject matter doesn’t appeal to our faddish desires.

    Also, I agree that not everyone who is tooled up intellectually is living right – that’s not up for debate. On the flipside, however I would rather sit under someone who knows the text of the Bible, has a stable theology [BENTLEY DOES NOT HAVE A THEOLOGY, LET ALONE A STABLE ONE] and lives right in accordance with the Word of God, manifesting the fruit of the Spirit – one of which is self-control…

  89. Freddie Thronson says:

    These post sound like a bunch of modern day pharases and saducees arguing about whether something is of God or not. For some reason I cant find any where in the bible satan healing anyone, or delivering someone, or bringing glory to Christ. And certainly tearing down each other is a fine example of love. Get real brothers and sisters. Seek first the kingdom.

  90. Kevin says:

    Lee,

    The Word does not tell me that satan can, so no I don’t believe it. If you find a scripture that says he can, let me know.

    Alan,

    I wish you had told me that Marjoe was the greatest evangelist you have ever seen so I could watch the video and come back and tell you that you have lost your mind. I say that because once I say there was absolutely no “hint” of him being a vessel of the Holy Spirit, you will say that’s only because I knew beforehand that he had “outed” himself as a false prophet. So if you are saying that when you watch him, there is that same lack of Holy Spirit that you see with Todd, then we may as well not even attempt any more discussions because I do sense the holy Spirit with Todd. I could care less about how or what Marjoe did, there was nothing real or genuine about him. Again, if you see the same with Todd then we are on two different sides of the earth and there is no hope of any type of understanding between us. I think my 8 year old could tell Marjoe was a fake.
    Also, still waiting for the verse that says satan himself can heal someone.
    Do you think all of those people who said they were healed in Marjoe’s “sermons”, were not actually healed? Whose faith does the healing? The evangelist or the person? The power of agreement in the Bible is clear, but if I’m not mistaken, Jesus said more than once “your faith has made you whole”. Even with a joke like Marjoe, and his deception and self indulging ways, Jesus operates on the faith of the person and not on the motives of the evangelist. As Paul said in Philippians 1:15-20
    15 Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill: 16 The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; 17 but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice. 19 For I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayer and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, 20 according to my earnest expectation and hope that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ will be magnified in my body, whether by life or by death. ”
    Paul wasn’t out of sorts because of the motive (was the person wrong to preach for self – yes), only that Christ was preached and the Holy Spirit would handle the rest. Now, if you are saying that you believe that Todd is preaching for himself and his gain and that all the healings are not real then I accept that as your opinion. I don’t agree, but I accept that as your opinion. I do agree that all the healings are probably not real because you could see that some of the people simply wanted to be on TV. Todd has no control over that part. I don’t believe that Todd is preaching for himself and I absolutely don’t believe that satan is or even can be doing the healings or the salvations.

    Douglas,

    The self-control comment I don’t quite get unless you are hung up on him shaking. I tend to do some shaking myself sometimes, especially while in Cuba and no we don’t take up an offering and we pay our own way without begging friends, neighbors or churches for money. And we also leave a lot of our belongings behind for them as well as bring them supplies when we come. The shaking is a reaction to the power of God moving so strong that my body is on the verge of not being able to handle it. Of course there are only the blind receiving sight, deaf ears opened, the town cripple walking upright, you know the normal stuff God does. And the one lady who had several tests and was told by the doctors that she could not have kids because she didn’t have an ovaries – and they tested her again to be sure. Hands were laid on her and she was prayed for. Six months later she was pregnant and now has a 14 month old son. And yes, there was plenty of shaking going on at the time she was prayed for and when she found out she was pregnant and no Cuba doesn’t do In-vitro.

    As far as your elevation of one portion of the scripture over another comment, I started that by saying it would depend on who was teaching / preaching it. As in, I can listen to Tony Miller teach Lamentations and be interested, blessed and gain knowledge and discipline. I couldn’t listen to some glass cathedral preachers discuss the Book of Acts for more than a few minutes at a time because I would much rather study alone with the Holy Spirit than listen to someone who doesn’t even sound like they believe what they are saying. So no, that comment was not based on the book, it was based on whether the person delivering the Word actually believed it. Just to clarify, I don’t have faddish desires and if I said what I was big on, it would be Proverbs and Acts – wisdom to use the power of God through the leading of the Holy Spirit the way He intends it to be.

    So all in all guys, if you think Todd is a Marjoe because you don’t sense the Holy Spirit, then we will agree to disagree and I don’t see a scripture that we can apply to that since I say it is the Holy Spirit – you say it is not. There’s really no way to agree. If you say satan is capable of and actually working through Todd (which I totally disagree with), then I say once again with all the scriptures that have been quoted about false prophets, etc – show me one where the Word says satan can and will heal and lead people to salvation. Can a person take advantage of others as Marjoe did? Definitely, I think Marjoe proved that. Did his self serving “acts” mean that anyone who came to God during his “sermons” was not actually saved? Flip side – does everyone who comes forward for salvation at a Billy Graham crusade actually get saved? Billy himself said they estimate that only 60% are genuine conversions. So if a true evangelist is not 100% successful on conversions, can a fake be 100% unsuccessful? Who saves and by what power – man’s or God’s? Who confesses unto salvation – the evangelist or the sinner? Who does the healing – evangelist or God? Whose faith in the Word alone can bring forth the healing – the evangelist or the person?

  91. Kevin says:

    Freddie,

    I agree with part of what you said. As far as tearing each other down, I have had no intention of tearing anyone down and I said in last night’s post that I didn’t doubt either of the gentleman’s love for Christ or purpose behind their comments. Do we disagree – yes. Do I have any ill will or negative feelings towards either of them – absolutely not.

    Kevin

  92. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    @Kevin,

    Then in that case, would leave a revival meeting to go hear Dr. John MacArthur teaching through the Book of Obadiah? If you were offered on-stage seats at Bentley’s meetings, would you forego them to hear Dr. R.C. Sproul teach on “Knowing Scripture”?

    Y’see, from the get-go, people who go to hear guys like Bentley make an active decision to turn their ears away from sound doctrine. The Bible makes it clear that the passive result of this [over which they have no control] is that they turn aside to fables.

    Bentley’s so-called angel named Emma is a fable – no Bible backing that up…

    The Revelation 10 Angel appearing to him is a fable – no Bible backing that up

    Two fables are too many for my liking…

  93. Thor says:

    You are too judgmental my friend. Overcome your insecurities. Get right with God. I pray that your unbelief be gone in Jesus name! It’s not Todd Bentley or Benny Hinn that are doing the miracles. It’s of God! Not of evil as you are trying to emphasize. Evil people cannot bring about miracles!

  94. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    Yes they can Thor – 2 Thess 2.

  95. Alan Higgins says:

    Kevin you say ‘I say there was absolutely no “hint” of him being a vessel of the Holy Spirit’. Could you please tell me what hint you expect to see so that you know it is from God?

    You ask is there a scripture that says that Satan heals. I will admit that I cannot be dogmatic and say that he does but what I do know is that he will perform a lot of lying signs and wonders to deceive. So if that ‘healing’ diverts that persons attention away from knowing God and scripture, for example, then it is not from God. I know many people who will always run to these kind of crusades like Morris Cerullo’s Mission to London, but speak to them on theological truths and they havent got a clue because they are there for the frills. You only have to do a search and witches perform healings so what does that mean?

  96. Kevin says:

    Alan & Douglas,

    2 Thessalonians Chapter 2 is talking about the anti-Christ – it states that he opposes everything of God and claims himself to be God. (v 4). So Douglas, by referencing that, then you think Todd is the anti-Christ or are you just stating that the anti-Christ will perform signs and lying wonders?

    As far as RC Sproul – I would not listen to him and his belief of the 5 points of calvinism – unconditional election? (can’t see it here > God is NOT a respecter of persons: Acts 10:34; Rom 2:11-12; 1 Pe 1:17) Limited atonement? (can’t see it here either > 1 John 2:1 “My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the WHOLE WORLD.”) I don’t think so. So you are correct – I wouldn’t consider listening to him. Are his followers wandering sheep who have been induced into a spiritual coma and have been deceived by the evil one who says that God IS a respecter of person and He may not choose you? Is this theologically correct?

    John MacArthur – didn’t he state that it was not actually the blood of Christ that saves (Eph.2:13, Hebrews 9:12 do not say that and if Christ brought the new covenant that means He replaced the old one and it called for the actual blood of animals Leviticus 16:15)? So you are correct once again, I would not listen to him either. Are his church members fallen, blind sheep who have been deceived by the flowing words of a man and led astray by the father of lies who says scripture is in error and does not believe in the power of the blood? What eternal future awaits those?

    Douglas – you mention “people who go to hear guys like Bentley make an active decision to turn their ears away from sound doctrine. The Bible makes it clear that the passive result of this [over which they have no control] is that they turn aside to fables.” You want to see turning away from sound doctrine and turning aside to fables? Re-read the previous two paragraphs. God is a respecter of man? Not saved by the blood? Hello ??? The redemptive power of the blood and the fact it was shed for ALL – how more basic can doctrine be? Yet this is not the word spoken to the sheep who follow these men down a slippery slope. You follow the teachings of these men? Do these men speak “theological truths”? You say they speak sound doctrine?

    Alan – when I say no hint, I mean that the moment I heard him open his mouth he was not speaking the word as someone who actually believed it. He sounded like an actor in a play who didn’t really want to be there, but was simply repeating the script that he had rehearsed in order to get paid. It doesn’t matter if two Christians agree on every matter, but when two Christians meet – both of them should be able to recognize a fellow Christian (Romans 8:16). Now I know you aren’t going to agree with me concerning Todd because you will say that Todd’s spirit does not bear witness with yours. Nothing I can do about that. Is he perfect – no – none of us are. Does the spirit within me bear witness with his spirit – yes. So that would be something you and I could never agree on.

    Lastly, Alan, you are correct, satan “will perform a lot of lying signs and wonders to deceive”, but I can’t see in scripture that the Word tells he can or will perform healings or lead people to salvation. Signs and wonders include things other than healing and I will not assume that healing is part of satan’s power unless I see it in the Word.

    Alan – last point – I hear people claim witches can perform healings, but I’ve never seen it happen or talked to anyone who has seen it happen or seen any type of proof after the fact that it actually happened. So that would be a fairytale in my book.

  97. Alan Higgins says:

    Its nothing to do with Todd’s spirit not bearing witness with mine, his doctrine is CLEARLY not biblical.

    And it is not just about ‘the spirit within you bearing witness with his spirit’ but about seeing if his teachings are biblical. I have heard many people talking about the spirit bearing witness but dont point to the bible. Marjoe obviously did a good job because many people flocked to his meetings so what does that say about the ‘spirits’ of those who attended

    Katherine Kuhlman, Benny Hinn, Todd Bently all seem to have the same script, just a different packaging and they do these things very well, otherwise many people would not flock to their meetings.

  98. Thor says:

    Hi Douglas,

    The greatest miracle is our decision to accept Jesus as our Lord and personal saviour! Our salvation! Evil people will not advocate that. 2 Thes 2 DOES NOT in anyway mention about evil people performing miracles.

    The people who received healings in Florida is a concrete manifestation and fulfilment of our authority as Christians in Mark 16:14-18 that we can lay hands on the sick and they will recover.

  99. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    @Kevin,

    Where do I begin…? Let’s start with your blatant misunderstanding of the doctrines of grace. Unconditional elections clearly affirms that God is no respecter of persons. God did not choose on the basis of who they are – in respect of persons, if you will – but on the basic of His own glory, which He will share with no man [Eph 1:4-6].

    On the issue of the limited atonement, I won’t re-invent the wheel, so I will suggest you look up John Owen’s classic work, The Death of Death in the Death of Christ, where he addresses the use of the word “all” and the Johannine concept of “world” in more detail than I can in this reply. Your misunderstanding of total depravity is also quite staggering. Man is born spiritually DEAD, not in a coma! [Ephesians 2].

    R.C. Sproul teaches directly from the Bible – Bentley doesn’t, and you and I both know that is the truth. As for Dr. MacArthur, the issue is actually quite simple if one does their homework. When Dr. MacArthur says it is not the blood, he is referring to the red liquid flowing in the veins. By that reasoning, Christ could have scratched his finger on a nail, and redeemed mankind.

    Any competent Biblical scholar can show you that the blood of Christ doesn’t refer to the blood in his veins – it is an inclusive metaphor for his atoning death on the Cross. Don’t take my word for it – find these “scholars” and prove it out of your own Bible. These men teach doctrines which have stood the test of time for over 500 years – Bentley can’t teach the same thing twice within the same year!

    As for witches performing healings, I know all about that! I’m from a little country off the western coast of Africa called Ghana. My grandfather, prior to his conversion, was a witch doctor. My dad has recounted story after story of “healings” – actual medically verifiable “healings” – which my grandfather performed. Signs and wonders are no proof of God’s approval – that goes out to you as well, Thor (Matthew 7:15-23; 2 Cor 11:1-4, 13-14).

    @Thor,

    Amen! The greatest miracle is the regeneration of a spiritually dead man! [Finally we have some common ground]. My problem is this: the Gospel message presented, however, has a lot of holes. The message extended to all men is “Repent and believe”. The Gospel is not a a message which says “What will you do with Jesus Christ?”, actually it is the inverse, “What will Christ do with you?”. Bentley and the seeker-sensitive movement are no different – they all use gimmicks to provoke a “decision for Christ” [BTW the Bible no-one says we make a decision for Christ – He chose us…didn’t Jesus say that?]

    Mark 16:14-18 was a promise to the Apostolic era – Eph 2:20 explains how the supernatural gifts were to be used.

  100. nigel given says:

    dear douglas
    i ,like the other brother you are arguing with believes that GOD is moving in florida.however what caught my attention was that you seemed to ask whether someone would leave a revival to go hear john mcarthur or r.c.sproul.i would definately go to hear r.c.sproul he is an exelant bible teacher.there are a few misgivings however about mr .mcartur.one of which is his blatant cessational stance about deliverance.not wishing to argue ,but since you are from ghana are you familiar with the united church of pentecost.i was wandering what was your church background.im not debating your love for JESUS or the bible so please dont think that im attacking you im just inquisitive.
    yours in our LORD JESUS CHRIST
    nigel

  101. nigel given says:

    dear douglas
    i have read and understand now that you are a cessationist.i will not insult your intelligence by suggesting you do not know what this means.however this has spoken volumns about your critisicm for todd bentley.we could argue but this is not edifying,we also could debate untill JESUS returns but then again this would provoke a debate whether hes coming back once or twice or pre ,mid or post tribulation rapture of the church.what it seems like is that the underlying problem is one of doctrine and not foundational christianity.i was raised as basically a calvinist ,however in calvins day where you not burned at the stake for disagreeing with him.im not a theologan and i really am abad speller but surely the promise of the HOLY SPIRIT was given to us all as many as the lord will call.im not diagreeing with you about the election by grace doctrine but why cant this be revival if people are getting saved and healed or maybe the question should be why dont you want it to be.im not criticising or pulling you down for what you believe but this arguement has been raging for centuries and even now the main question has to be does GOD still work miracles today.the gretast being salvation. i praise GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST MY LORD that hes awonder working GOD.
    JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!
    NIGEL

  102. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    My mother grew up in the Church of Pentecost, and my grandmother has been in it since 1961. (Interesting how you know of them…). I grew up in the Deeper Life Bible, which to its credit steered well clear from these type of excesses, however my Dad was an extremist of sorts to the point where as of yesterday, he tendered his resignation to his Regional Overseer to start his own “prophetic ministry”.

    Thank you for your most cordial response. I appreciate your concerns, however my (and most probably Bro. Alan’s) concern can best be articulated in Christ’s Word to the pharisees: “a wicked and perverse generation seek after a sign”

  103. Kevin says:

    Douglas,

    If you are saying that my “blatant misunderstanding of grace” is in reference to your belief in election, then you would be correct. Your apparent belief in predestination evidently means “exclusion”. If there be exclusion, then I assume you mean that grace is only given to the “chosen” (not anyone “the whosoever will” who asks) and therefore God must have created some people to do nothing more than take up space while in the earth and then burn in hell for eternity.

    To my issue with “misunderstanding of total depravity”, my reference to a coma was not in birth but by people following teachings of a man that are in error. You say Todd is in error and I say some of your so-called “theologians” are in error. My comments on calvinism were to predestination and limited atonement – not the sinful nature of man from birth, so you no longer need to be “staggered” by your misunderstanding of my comment.

    Also, ask your competent Bible scholars why if it is not the blood then why does the Bible refer to it all? Why does it even mention blood and just say when Jesus died since you say the death is all that matters? So, by your belief, in the Old Testament, there was really no reason for the high priest to sprinkle blood on the mercy seat because the fact that an animal simply died actually covered man’s sin? Makes me wonder why they put blood on the doorposts in the OT since the blood doesn’t mean anything? I guess that was a waste of time and had to have been a “metaphor”.

    You say the doctrines of Sproul and MacArthur have been taught for years and that proves something? There are a lot of theologians who do NOT believe the 5 points of calvinism and quite a few rebuffed MacArthur from the moment he wrote his letter. In the letter he actually said those who disagreed were “relentless”. There are just as many, if not more who do not agree with him. The repetition of MacArthur’s or Sproul’s false doctrine does not mean that it stood the test of time. It simply means someone kept repeating it.

    You are right, signs and wonders are not proof that it is God, just as the lack of them would not prove it isn’t. I know Bible believing churches that are over 100 years old and have never had the first person healed in their midst, but have had hundreds saved. As far as your grandfather, I would like to have seen the healings. I won’t say that I doubt that he did them because your family was there and I wasn’t. I don’t believe that you would “make up” such an event, but that would be one time that “seeing would be believing” and I would have to have seen it before I would credit an evil spirit with healing.

  104. Dave Richardson says:

    The following is a letter that I wrote to a sister that is recovering from a Church that became a cult that I was one time a member of… Jesus was there in big way at first but when the Spirit of the Pastor went bad then the whole thing started going bad. He had made himself into the center of our attention and not Jesus and the scriptures. He wrongly and laboressly interupted scripture in lenghty bible studes that he used to flare dirty looks at people if they got up to go to the bathroom. At one time Pastor Steward Trail of the Church of Bible Understanding boasted ten thousand members. Their was an article about him in Time Magazine. We were part of the Jesus People movement of the seventies. I had long left feeling that I could never join another church because he had falsely told members they could never be faithful to the pristen knowledge they had been given. I also signs and wonders recieved the baptism of the holy spirit and spoke in tongues and gave a word of prophecy. In 1987, Mr. Trails church began to fall apart because he was caught gropping to young girls and then eveidence arose that he was asking young woman to be his half wife and asking them about their sexual fantasies.
    No one who remained was strong enough in Christ to challenge him. He then went from rigid adderance to holiness to saying he had been decieved about talking about grace. This is what flim flam men do. Everyone working for the Church living in fellowship was living rock bottom with multiple people living one house and eating communially so that all the other money could go to Mr. Trails pockets. There are now only eighty members but Mr. Trail has access to a 500,000 home in Jersey, Four Airplanes, and two condos in Florida. Take a look and you will see that those who work for filty lucre are out to take you down with them. If you critic any thing they say you are branded a heretic. WHy? Because they are of the devil!

    Dear Sister Lise,
    I love you in Christ and Jesus is taking his arms and wrapping them around you. I went through the same thing after trying humanly six different times to faithful by Stewards standards. I came back and backslide and came back and backslid. I never went back to Church for twenty seven years to get help and rededicate my life. I came back only a year ago and the Potter has chipped away at my fleshly self. Christ Jesus has overcome sexual sin in me which was a major obstacle and obsession for years. He has taught me to order the idle words of my life and does so daily. I do not look to myself for change but to his promise that he will cleanse us from all iniquity. I still smoke, I do not drink, sometimes I fall and have a puff of pot. But God is dealing with that too. I have gone through horrible depression, anxiety and physical pain. But I look to Jesus just like Peter did when he walked on the water. I looked to televangelism on TV for a while but I realize that books from valid solidly doctrinal authors gets me alot further.The Lord spoke to me very clearly when I was watching Christian TVand told me that I would find little understanding their. The heresies of Benny Hinn, Todd Bently, The Kansas City Prophets and IHOP are a great deception as most of the word of faith teachers in the Charasmatic movement are. Note: Not all the teachers and preachers are deluded but many are and those speaking more of repentance, brokeness, humbleness, and the need to be a good witness for Christ through our words and deeds are on the correct path. But few speak of this all they speak of is breakthrough and sending more money and buying more overpriced books. They could offer them as downloads on peoples computers. Most television Pulpits have become info mercials of a sort to sell you something that they say is essential to your christianlife. If it is that important they would be willing to give it away and included it in their sermons. Morris Cerillo’s net worth is over a hundred million dollars, Paul and Jan Crouch of the TBN networks net worth is around one hundred and forty million dollars. They are playing church and presenting a form of Godliness. The sad thing is that few of them are honest and completly decieved as to TBN’s money making schemes. Not all ministries are bad. Watchmen on the wall on the net is a good place to start if you consider any type of giving. The poor sheep. I blame this on people like Steward who were manipulated by the devil to set them selves up like Saul. Most of them have become like Amalakite Kings. They want to set themselves up to take the place of Jesus instead of serving Jesus. One brother said something very valid. The Pastors and ministers are to lift the sheep and the lambs up to Jesus from the bottom up.so they become more like Jesus. Note: Did we ever see Stew do this or didn’t he set up Choirs to Lord over us and beat us in his name. Take a good faithful brother and turn him into a henchman. But that wasn’t good enough because as people go older they started asking Stew questions about his Pastoring. That was when he went Mao si Tung and started the cultural remake saying that all the other brothers needed to come to New York to the School to be retrained and turned everyone else against them. That was how all the new converts like myself learned to back bite and Prophetically say like our Elijah; Brother or Sister I think I seee this brown in you or this sin.” We were not taught love but backbiting because we saw Stew and everone else doing it. When I first met Steward I was told that i showed go to oneof the older brothers first and then speak to stew. At a Regional meeting in Richmond. I was walking by and saw Steward so I held out my hand in Friendship and he Jumped up did his jumping around bunny rabbit act and went away complaining and asking older brothers why they had not told the new people how they were to approch him. I ghouled him….He just hated people think that he was a normal flesh and blood man. That is why he spread the rumor that he was the Prophet Elijah.Many Pastors make themselves like kings and the sheep have to beaten so that they will not question the work of the devil. Seed faith harvest heresy has become so bold as to insinuate that people are not going to be blessed unless they get out their check books and give give give. Note: Tithing was an institution of the Catholic Church introduced at the Council of Macon in 585 and was not enforced untill the rule of Holy Roman Emperor Charlamange. The new testament teaches us love, mercy and helping the poor. That the measure we give is the measure we get. The where our treasure is their also our hearts are. If Pastors preached a message of love and mercy in cheerful giving the peoples hearts would be moved by the truth and the churches needs and charity would be meet and more. But they Just talk about money not about the necessity to love Jesus in spirit and in truth. To seek deliverance, to look to Jesus. If we have abundant lives that means we live forever and in this life are filled with the Joy of the Lord and Peace. Many wealthy Christians would rather write a check for a million dollars than mention one word of the gospel as led by the holy spirit. They would never dream of having a down and out homeless person in their house.The Church as a whole as become so luke warm that it is nausiating. I pray for the fire of God and the power of the holy spirit to fill believers with zeal. I pray we become salt. I pray for persecution to come upon the Church in America so that it will wake people up like the church in China. Let all of me die dear lord and may your spirit fill the gap left by fire that burnt away the awful person that I was daily. Less of me and more of Jesus. He is faithful when we are faithless. Be of good cheer he that started a good work in you will be faithful to complete it. A good local Church filled with people who love God and lift up Jesus and walk the way of the cross is the best place to be. I have been sick for a while and bed ridden lately. But when I do go to bible study or corporate prayer their few that are their. Many come to Church on Sunday. Alas the tares grow with the wheat least the wheat be torn up with the wheat. Regardless GOD IS LOVE AND WISHES THAT NO MAN SHOULD PERISH. As strange as it may sound God loved ever evil dictator and King that lived. He wants to give them the opportunity to change before it is to late. He holds out his hand for them to turn to Jesus. Regardless of heresies whereever the name of Jesus is mentioned their he is in the midst of them. Reverend Wurumbrand (Lutheran minister who wrote torchered for Christ) it did not matter whether you were Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Pentecostal or whatever he said that above all things God precieves the heart. To believe in Christ is not to believe in an artists rendering of how they suppose Jesus looked it is believing in his words. Heaven and Earth may pass away but my word will never pass away. To know Jesus is to know that it is the Fathers will that we Glorify Christ in all that we do. Many will come in that day and say Lord Lord did we not cast out demons in your name did we not do great and marvelous things in your name. What I understand about myself in my abiding in him because he loved me first is that he is innocent and faithful, he can do no wrong and will not give me a stone … He will give me the best thing he has which is more of his nature that I may Glorify God. Dear Father may we walk in brokeness and humbly before you with many tears that we may be made daily into your perfect image as revealed to us in the word of God.
    Love dear Sister is the answer and if you seek your first love like fine silver you will find that peace again. Do as you did before…. May we all examine ourselves and seek out our salvation with fear and trembling before the Alpha and the Omega. God is love! In that day I will pour out my spirit on all flesh and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams. I will pour out my spirit on my male bondservants on my maid servants. Grow in his love. He who waters will be watered.
    May the peace the everlasting truth of the risen and ever present lord hold you in his hand, bottle up your tears and carry you gently to the throne of God.
    Love Brother David Richardson

  105. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    @Kevin,

    Everything you’ve said about Calvinism are nothing more than straw men, as opposed to the real thing, so I would suggest actually reading Calvinistic sources than going off on what you think Calvinism is. Election is God’s extension of mercy to horrible, depraved men who do no deserve the very breath in their nostrils, let alone the salvation of their very souls. Man doesn’t have ANY right to choose – it’s not even his to decide over in the first place.

    As far as a “limited atonement”, I affirm the value of the blood of Christ. His blood could pay for the sins of a thousand universes and still have room for more. However, the issue is not the value of the blood of Christ, it is the intent of His death. If Christ died for the sins of every man, if He died even for people who will never believe, then surely He becomes a weak Saviour who cannot save some of those for whom He died. A definite atonement for a definite number of people means that Christ’s death will save all those who believe [of course, faith is a gift from God – it is not inherent in man] – with a 100% success rate. Again, I would ask you to look back at my last post and read John Owen’s book in its entirety with a notepad and an open Bible.

    As to the whole blood issue, you clearly lack an understanding of the Biblical culture into which the NT was written. Blood was significant of LIFE, thus when the NT speaks of the shed blood of Christ, it is referring to his death [the shedding of His very life!]. Pick up any decent Bible commentary and you will see this same point brought up again and again.

    If God truly performs healings today, then I would ask why would He use people with serious doctrinal errors under their belt to do signs and wonders which supposedly glorify Him? Has it never bothered you that Oneness Pentecostals who do miracles deny the Trinity? Surely if they can’t get the doctrine of God right, then the rest of the foundation is faulty?

  106. Alan Higgins says:

    This is a good post from someone who has been in the medical field for 20 years.

    http://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/todd-bentley-and-the-florida-outpouring-part-6/

  107. nigel given says:

    dear douglas
    the reason i asked is that my nephew by marriage,walter,his great uncle founded the church.james mckeown.he was from the same small village in northern ireland where i attend church.this is a very small independent church that was founded 50 years ago ,basically on the back of what james and his brother adam were witnessing GOD do in africa,there testimony wasnt accepted in the local apostolic church,they did not believe in signs miracles and wonders.however the members who did believe that GOD still moved in this way set up there own fellowship .there was surprissingly no anomosity between the two congregations and GOD has and still is working mightily in our very small church.i am what you might call a presbycostal having been raised in the presbyterian church,attended sunday school with the plymouth brethren and came to knowJESUS through the local pentecostal pastor.my pastor goes every year to burkino fasso and last year he and walter visited ghana ,where the were welcomed very graciously.this is the reason i asked you this question and fully intend to visit africa very soon to help with an extention to the school and orphanage which we sponsor.must go as my wife has finally went into labour.farewell douglas ,alan and all those who call JESUS THERE LORD AND SAVIOUR.
    P.S.i love and greatly admire the teaching of r.c.sproul.

  108. nigel given says:

    aha brother alan as im very pleased to say we seem to have more i common than division .i was just as i said before checking out somemore of this website and see that you have a licking for the teaching of chuck missler.is this so?

  109. Kevin says:

    Douglas,

    “He becomes a weak Saviour who cannot save some of those for whom He died.”

    Can’t say as I’ve ever heard such an “unusual” comment. I thought there was this thing called a free-will decision by man, but evidently in the Bible you use, man is simply a robot or maybe he actually doesn’t need to accept Christ since Christ already made the choice for him. But then that would mean there is no reason for the gospel to be preached since the “elect” are already the “elect” which seems to give some an “elitist” attitude. How do you know for sure that you are one of the elect and you just haven’t been fooled into thinking you are? Since it wasn’t your choice to begin with, how do you know for sure?

    I actually do have a decent Bible Commentary Hayford, Dobson, Feinberg, Hinson, Roll, and Wilmington, funny thing they don’t agree with you. With your approach that death is all that mattered – I guess I should ask what good would death have been had there been no resurrection? If He simply dies and that’s the end, I assume by your philosophy then the resurrection was unnecessary?

    “If God truly performs healings today”. It took a week, but now I see where your main issue lies. You don’t believe that God “truly heals today”. It would not matter what Todd did or looked like, the fact that healings are taking place would “cross” you regardless. If God is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8), unless you think the healings mentioned in the Bible are lies, then healings still happen today. You ask why God would use someone like Todd? I guess God has to use imperfect people since all of the perfect ones aren’t available.

    “”We’ve been receiving testimonies from different parts of Nigeria and from all over Africa,” said Pastor William Folorunso Kumuyi, General Superintendent of the Deeper Life Bible Church, Lagos, while speaking recently about its quarterly “Great Africa – wide Crusade.” This programme, which started in 2005, is usually transmitted across the continent and other parts of the world through district satellite crusade locations and the Internet.

    In Nigeria, the church has organised this crusade in Port Harcourt, Benin, Aba, Kaduna and Ibadan. The programme has also taken place in Ghana, Togo and Sierra Leone. There are many testimonies of miracles at these crusades that the church has documented in its Great Crusade Testimonies Directory. ”

    Is that your Pastor talking about healings? I noticed two of the church beliefs are:”Redemption from Curse of the Law
    That Redemption from the curse of the law, Healing of sickness and disease as well as continued Health are provided for all people through the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ. Exodus 15:26; Deuteronomy 7:15; Psalm 103:1-5; Proverbs 4:20-22; Isaiah 53:4,5; Matthew 8:16,17; I Peter 2:24; Mark 16:15-18; Luke 13:16; John 15:12-14; 10:10; Acts 10:38; James 5:14-16; I John 3:8; III John 2; Galatians 3:13,14. ” and
    “Hell Fire
    That Hell-fire is a place of everlasting punishment where sinners (all who do not have their names in the book of life) will suffer torments for ever and ever. It was prepared for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41), but God has decreed that the wicked and those who forget Him and reject Christ, will also be cast there, because of their sin and neglect of His salvation. Psalm 9:17; Matthew 25:46; Luke 12:4,5; 16:19-31; Matthew 5:22,30; Mark 9:43-47; Revelation 14:10,11; 20:10,12-15”

    The interesting comment is “God has decreed that the wicked and those who forget Him and reject Christ, will also be cast there, because of their sin and neglect of His salvation.” By forgetting Him, the sinner apparently chooses to neglect His salvation. That does not agree with your comment that “Man doesn’t have ANY right to choose – it’s not even his to decide over in the first place.”

    I had lunch with one of my Pastor / Missionary friends today, who happens to have his Masters and finishing his Doctorate so he may know just a little something, and we discussed some of the points made on this board. He said that every time there is a move of God, there will be those who refuse to believe and warn of the false prophet. He spent a week in Lakeland and said everything about that week screamed God is in control. Now I know you could care less that he has his Masters and is working on his Doctorate, because unless all of those years of school led him to have the same theology as you do, then he would be wrong. I guess I need to write Billy Graham and ask him if he believes in election since he has led as many crusades as anyone else. It would be interesting to know if he thought that those who did not respond to the alter call, didn’t do it because they were not chosen instead of a free-will decision.

    To conclude, I can see this conversation will never go anywhere beneficial for anyone, so this is my last post. You believe what you believe and I’ll believe what I believe and life goes on. I sincerely hope your dad’s new ministry sets your area of the world on fire.

  110. Douglas K. Adu-Boahen says:

    Kevin,

    This has been quite a fruitful discussion into understanding how the mind of Bentley adherent reason. As to quoting Dr. Kumuyi – clever move…except I left the denomination last summer.

    I love the man personally, but on the issue of the Pentecostal gifts – the man is wrong. You’re right – talking to you with the intention of changing your mind will be pointless – you are convinced of your doctrine, I am convinced of the Scriptural teaching. My advice to you is read what WE HAVE TO SAY – not what some anti-Calvinist says.

    Personally, I fear for my father’s adherents – but hey, he is a grown man, entitled to his opinion.

  111. Alan Higgins says:

    Nigel, I have listened to a bit of Chuck Misser but admittedly have not listened to a lot of his stuff but what I have heard seems to be spot on

  112. nigel given says:

    dear alan
    he is fantastic especially on genesis.however i dont agree with everything but i can see why people like his teaching so much .i will be posting on another blog.so hope to rreceive a reply then.

  113. Laura says:

    Hi guys!

    I am part of a pentecostal church in the UK and many people in our church have been watching Todd and think it’s all great. I’ve had my doubts from day one. Last night I was chatting to an old wise couple in our church who I love dearly and trust. Turns out they’ve actually written a letter to God TV to complain about the whole thing!!

    As for the dudes shouting about ‘Satan can’t heal, and it doesn’t say in the Bible that he does..’

    I’d like to ask you this:

    African witch doctors heal
    Reiki heals (my friend is heavily involved with this)
    Mediums heal
    Acupuncture heals
    Wiccans heal

    .. are these healings from God? – You may say ‘They may not be true healings, they may be illusions’ but then maybe Todd Bentley’s aren’t either. This ‘revival’ has only just began, you can’t exactly call it ‘tried and tested’ healing.

    If Satan’s not behind the true or false healings of Reiki then I’d love to know who is, my friend became involved after being ‘healed’ and being part of an ‘amazing experience’ since then her life’s taken a steady downward spiral into the occult. This has left her with severe depression which is leading her to dig deeper giving her a viscious circle. She never heeded God’s warnings and is still not today.

    It amazes me that people today still base their faith on ‘signs and wonders’ when we have been warned so many times in the Bible against that very thing. And so far all I’ve seen from Todd Bentley is ‘signs and wonders’ – I’m just glad I can get filled with the Holy Spirit just by reading the Word of God and sharing it with others. I have no urge to travel far and wide for ‘a touch of God.’ God is not in a room, or a building, or a person. He is there whenever we truely seek Him.

  114. Laura says:

    PS: Infact looking more closely, Todd’s angel worship fits in nicely with Reiki!

    They teach about several deities – one being ‘Jesus Sananda’ and another being an actual alien.

    They claim to be Christian based and talk about Jesus, they also heal people and make many signs and wonders.

    Are you guys going to jump on the band wagon and support Reiki because it gives ‘good experiences’ and makes your spirit feel closer to God?

  115. Lee says:

    Laura,

    Thanks for your comments. In my continuing study of kundalini, it appears this practice can heal [and I do believe this is what Bentley is transf— errr… imparting in Lakeland]. I’ve also read that there are very detrimental side effects to kundalini practitioners including Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. Apparently, after ‘awakenings’ there can be serious fallout.

    Jazz piano great Keith Jarrett has used ‘Kundalini Music’ as one of his music publishing companies. Interestingly, he was stricken with CFS from ’96 to about 2000, and, consequently was practically bedridden. While I cannot say definitively that Jarrett was practicing kundalini, it certainly seems plausible.

    Wait for the after effects, the bad fruit, from this ‘revival.’

  116. Dawn says:

    Laura and Lee:

    Thanks for your comments. I have been to many of the meetings at Lakeland since April 3rd, even before this became the “revival/outpouring” that is. I’ve come to realize what deception this is, and what deception I have embraced over the years.

    It’s been interesting that you mention Kundalini. I’ve done some reading, Lee, after looking at your post, to look further at the correlation with Kundalini and CFS. I’ve had Fibromyalgia for several years and CFS. Since attending the meetings in Lakeland and being prayed for, instead of receiving healing, my CFS/FM are through the roof! In fact, I am experiencing the worst relapse I’ve had in 7 years. I’m really having a lot of difficulty functioning, sleeping, increased pain etc. But the fatigue is just awful.

    I really think “Kundalini” is responsible for much of what folks believe is the presence of the “Holy Spirit” people are feeling in these meetings. And, they are praying for MORE in these meetings.

  117. Lee says:

    Dawn,

    I’ll be praying for your healing. I hope Alan doesn’t mind this diversion from the topic:

    1) if you’re not already doing this, drink plenty of filtered/bottled water — [take your body weight in lbs., divide by two, and drink this many ounces of water per day].

    2)try alkaline water [you may have to research this for your area] with a ph of 8.0 or higher. Evamor bottled water is 9.0. Most sick bodies are acidic and drinking alkaline water can rebalance the body.

    This [adequate water intake] is the first pillar listed in Dr. Don Colbert’s (MD) book The Seven Pillars of Health.

    There’s a US-based blog I contribute to which has many formerly deceived individuals posting and commenting. You may find spiritual healing there. Here’s a link:

    http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/2008/05/28/kickin-folks-in-the-teeth-for-christ-now-thats-my-kinda-revival/#comment-4662

    The very first commenter “Paul” is former Toronto Vineyard pastor Paul Gowdy who wrote an assessment after Toronto ’94 describing it as a ‘mixed curse.’ Just do a Google search ‘Paul Gowdy + toronto.’

  118. Lee from UK says:

    Copied from another blog:

    Thankfully it was repeated yet again on one of God Tv channels on Saturday night 31st May 2008, so from what I can gather he says the following:
    ‘I pray this girl would receive by the angels in heaven a new heart blah blah blah.’
    Now was this a slip up, I’m still convinced that no where in the Bible are angels called upon to do such things, putting the emphasis on them is surely wrong, only God, The Holy Spirit and Jesus name can be mentioned in healing, it’s three in one, not half a dozen in one.
    Again the trouble comes from the fact he said by, and not in the name of angels from heaven, so I guess it could be explained lightly away and I’m making a mountain out of a mole hill, going against God’s Spirit like the Pharisees and awaiting my judgment and hell, oops.
    However I still maintain something still does not quite 100% sit right with all this, bit like the asking for money during missions week on TV ministry shows. Or the Green miracle Handkerchief. I guess only time will tell, but if it is all nonsense, how many will have been duped.

    http://wingswatchman.org/ /jesus%20death%20mask%20p%20hol.pdf

    The following makes interesting listening, but is a bit harsh in the way the guy says the things that he does.
    Interesting are the pdf files that he has provided:

    http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=51808224915

    http://media.sermonaudio.com/mediapdf/51808224915.pdf

    finally my comments on the so called judge thing.

    It is true, but we don’t so much judge a person as what they are or do, for instance we don’t hate someone for being gay, God loves them, all have sinned Romans 1, we are as guilty, if we lust after someone in our hearts whether they be of the same sex or not, amen.
    But however we have a duty as body of the Christ to speak out:

    “I marvel that you are so quickly deserting him who called you to the grace of Christ, changing to another gospel; which is not another gospel, except in this respect that there are some who trouble you, and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel to you other than that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema!” (Galatians 1: 6-8)

    So okay He was truly annointed, and we are no St Pauls, most of us, but to not do or say anything is bit like the Catholics covering up the child abuse, sooner or later it comes out anyway and reflects bad on us.

    I’d rather speak out, risk being wrong and repent and beg for forgiveness before God, than say nothing and later it turns out to be false and people will say, where were you all, oh you had doubts, why didn’t you say something then.

    If compared to the Bible and the word of God, that means the Bible only we see things, Bam, Bam, shaking, angel this and angel that, and other things not quite right and read as I have of experiences, see the one put on my main home page and the link to it, of first hand experience in this event, it becomes clear something is not quite right.
    Sure the Real God can move and maybe is there, who knows, but again I feel I have the right along with many others to warn, I love revealing truth and having been attacked myself, know what being misled can be like, amen:

    http://www.4hurtingchristians.com/my_powerful_story.html

  119. ?UESS says:

    CHRIST JESUS the one true light of the world, will alway expose what’s lurking in the darkness!

    We all need to be careful…

  120. Gerry McArdle says:

    Could we stop throwing tags of holy writ about the place and use common sense, which is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Todd Bentley is a patent fake, using the techniques of a stage magician/hypnotist, combined with the fanaticism of other fundamentalists such as Hinn and Bonnke, staunch favourites of God TV. Let us not forget here the vile homophobe Bob Jones. Limbs growing back? Really? Gold teeth being installed? O yeah? One poor deluded young man sent a testimony about how he had been delivered from rock music. Heaven help us. And then we have the shouting of gibberish, the writhing along with the multitude of obese Americans, the tuneless ‘hymns’ and the outrageous claims. I live in Dublin, Ireland where the fire is allegedly falling. I can’t say I’ve noticed. Shame on God TV for giving a platform to these evil phonies. Shame on the Wendy Aleck woman with her inane rantings, and her pudgy little husband who appears remarkably well-fed by the offerings of the gullible. Cop on folks. If there is a God I cannot believe he works in this way. Chicabuma, or whatver it is, to the lot of them!

  121. Anon says:

    Can I ask for your prayer upon The Kingdom Life church in Northampton for discernment and divine revelation please. It is not my church, but used to be, and my current church has some ties with it. They have gone all in on this ‘revival’ – many old friends of mine have flown off to Florida and have returned ‘changed’ people.

    The church has cancelled all house groups, lost many members and is focusing it’s whole ethos on Lakeland. They are watching clips of GodTV even through their Sunday services from what I can gather! The pastor and his wife have been totally sucked in along with a large portion of the congregation. I’m not sure how many are truely with them and how many are going along to support their leadership – but already several church members have been left out in the cold for not taking part, which for this church, is really unusual and out of character.

    It is a large church and has the opportunity to influence a lot of people.

    Please pray for the leadership and their congregation.

    Thanks in advance guys, and God Bless you!

  122. Laura says:

    Why can I not post replies anymore?

  123. William Cook says:

    For all Bentley’s critics, maybe the Lord sent Todd because he couldn’t get any of you to be open to the power of God.Oh Pharisee, Pharisee! “Clouds without water” are you.You strain out a knat and swallow a camel of self-righteousness, judgment, criticism, and spiritual impotence! Give Lakeland the same mercy and grace you would want if God were using you.with the same measure you meet, it shall be measured to you. May God not hold this sin to your charge for you know not what you do.

  124. Alan Higgins says:

    And what sin is that William?

  125. Gerry McArdle says:

    It looks like Bentley mania is over and he has been exposed by Nightline. He seems to be gone from God TV. Do ‘rats’ and ‘sinking ships’ come to mind? Now that he’s gone, maybe those other lying preachers Hinn, Bonnke, Howard-Browne, Murdoch, Bob Jones and their PR agents, the odious Alecs, will also be found out.

  126. Laura says:

    I thought it would be important to mention:

    A friend of a friend, her name’s Liz, went to the Lakeland revival approximately a month ago with a terminal brain tumour, she was dragged their by her father-in-law who was sure she’d be healed – I’m not sure she felt upto travelling all that way. She’s relatively young and has young children so as you can imagine was desperate for healing.

    Anyway, she went and was sure she’d been healed by Todd, despite not feeling better.

    She died last week, her funeral is this week.

    Please pray for her family and friends for strength and that they wouldn’t turn away from God as so many do in situations like this.

  127. Alan Higgins says:

    Thanks Laura. I will add this to tomorrows post which will be about Todd Bentley

  128. Laura says:

    Cheers Alan, after watching part of the ABC doc re: Todd, and the fact he couldn’t back up even three claims of healing – I felt it important to add, I also found a website yesterday who had updates on the guy he ‘kneed in the stomach’ and they weren’t good. Will post links if I can re-find them.

  129. caleb says:

    i dont get on how you guys can bash a man who loves God so much and is so hungry for him. and you guys are the perfect chritsian example im guessing writing a long blog on a man who is actually doing something to expand the kingdom of God who wants to see people get saved and live there lives for Jesus. so you guys have a great day and make sure laura you research lots of dirt on todd

  130. Alan Higgins says:

    Caleb, did you watch the Nightline post?

  131. alease davis says:

    Personally,I think it is an honor to be called a “heretic hunter”,because heresy of the worst sort is abounding in the Church today.Thank God for every one of you who is gutsy enought o tell it like it is!The pharisees rejected Jesus,the verse sbout them have nothing whatsoever to do with Christians using discernment to expose the works of darkness trying to appear to be works of God.I love Jesus,I just dont love to see false prophets making a mockery of Christ and decieving His people.People can love Christ,and yet be terribly,terribly naive.I used to follow after Benny Hinn,until my eyes were opened to the truth about him.Alot of times,Christians dont really WANT to know the truth about a false leader.It may be that they believe in Jesus BECAUSE of the “miracles” being claimed,or the gold dust,or the “slaying”,or the visions.People who are not really grounded in the Scripture can feel that they “need” to have these things to believe in.I’ve heard people say things like “I know God is real-because I see all those people being knocked to the floor at Benny Hinn’s crusades” Think about it,Christian people,would Almighty God allow Himself to be thrown like a basketball,”blown”into people,be used to knock someone repeatedly to the floor(after they are repeatedly stood back on their feet),thrown in a suit jacket at people,be used to knock the choir down like bowling pins,it’s so absurd! I even heard Hinn say that he kept “slaying a guy in the Spirit”,just to see his wig fly off each time..I’m sure the King of Kings had nothing better to do that day.How stupid can we get,to even consider this as true.I know,because I used to believe it myself,but no more. I suffered great spiritual and psychological damage by listening to the teachings of a faith healer in Akron,Ohio.He was on tv one day,and I heard him say that if anyone,even a Christian,says that his “miracle healings” are not from God…then they have just BLASPHEMED THE HOLY SPIRIT! I then read a book that this guy wrote on the same topic,and it plunged me into years of tormenting,obsessive fear.I spent years reading books,consulting numerous ministers,searching hundreds of websites,going to counseling and seeing psychiatrists trying to get this horrifying thought out of my mind.Heretical teachings arenot harmless,they destroy ppeople’s lives and put them into bondage.That’s why this stuff has to be exposed for what it is.It’s easier to take a “whatever floats your boat” attitude,but it isnt loving in reality to let people blindly follow a heretic,unwarned,to their possible spiritual ruin.Love in Christ,Alease

  132. Victoria says:

    Thank you for your work in exposing false doctrine. I fell to prey to similar teachings when I first was called to follow Christ. You have inspired me to post an article on my blog about my experiences. You can find it at http://bible4moms.blogspot.com/2008/07/led-astray.html

    Keep up this important, unpopular work. I know I will.

    Victoria

  133. your sister in Christ says:

    woo…so many arguments going on.

    Can people found God in the end through some not so sounded doctrine or they are just seriously deceived? Are people who are preaching those unsounded doctrine can still really love God as God or are they false prophets warned by the bible? Can it be God who called many to warn people of the not so sounded doctrine? Can God also tell some to ignore those happening all together or is that person hearing God falsefully?

    The answer is you can’t answer any of those questions for anyone but yourself. Each one of us are very uniquely distinct. We don’t know where the person who posted on this blog are spritrually at this moment, nor do we know what God has planned for that person. Only God knows perfectly.

    Therefore, before any of us jump onto anther person’s case/view/idea, why not step back, trust God, and let Him who is the judge judge?

    If you turly believe it is God who has called you to warn people about certain thing, (and this should never be done with an impulse….if God truly wnats us to do something, there is ALWAYS confirmation after your much prayers), then fear not, warn us about the things God tells you. If someone truly believe it’s God who called them to give praise report of his/her recent experience, then let us hear the good news and rejoice with you! Do you believe God has His children’s back covered? (Even if the rally they went through are indeed false ones, has God not used ungodly to bring some to Him? i think yes) So, why worry, let’s keep following Jesus with a sinere heart, and He will take care of the rest. God can often time work very differently on different person. (If you are truly concern for that person, then offer your many prayers for that person in secrect. Your prayer will be answered)

    Personally, i feel maybe instead of aruging or feeling offended, discouraged by one another, why don’t know just
    Trust God and Let He continue to Judge. (Do you think God is going to loose even one from His flock???!!!)

    so, We, despite our great differences on mnay things, keep loving each other, and may our love in its various forms be guarded by the Word of God, and be guided by Holy spirit.

    Peace in Christ.

  134. Alan Higgins says:

    But at the same time, are we not told to warn against ungodliness?

    You said “if God truly wants us to do something, there is ALWAYS confirmation after your much prayers”

    Where in the bible does it say this?

  135. Timothy Lee says:

    Have many of you pray and ask the Holy Spirit to answer your questions and also ask Him to speak to you reveal to you the truth ?
    Do you know about the unpardonnable sin ? It is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.
    I pray that many of you will have a divine encounter with the Holy Spirit and have a Damascus experience as Saul did many decades ago
    God bless all
    Timothy

  136. Alan Higgins says:

    Timothy, you do not have to ‘pray and ask the Holy Spirit to answer your questions and also ask Him to speak to you reveal to you the truth’ when he has already revealed it in scripture

  137. Lance Jones says:

    I have a question:
    Is the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY still in the healing business.

  138. Alan Higgins says:

    Yes but so does Satan with his lying signs and wonders. Dont make the mistake of making experience determine your doctrine. Doctrine should always determine the experience and everything should tested and held up for scrutiny against the word of God

  139. John says:

    Only one thing matters. Do those on God TV believe that Jesus is the Son of God come in the flesh and rose again by the power of God? If the answer is “yes” then they are Christians. Period. End of discussion. Anything else is divisive, contentious and clearly condemned by Paul and the other writers of the NT. That is the one and ONLY…repeat the ONLY “doctrine” that matters when it comes to determining if they are Christians or not.

    I’d challenge you to prove me wrong, but it’s impossible, so don’t waste my time. I won’t be back to this site ever again. There is nothing here that glorifies the Lord or his Church.

    Shame on you all.

  140. Alan Higgins says:

    John, believing ‘ Jesus is the Son of God come in the flesh and rose again by the power of God’ ALONE does not make a person a christian.I know many people who believe that and they are still unsaved

    Where is repentance? It is not impossible to prove you wrong. Look at https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/2008/07/23/2007/12/06/how-do-you-know-that-you-are-saved/

  141. Laura says:

    John, God is sovereign and has power over all.

    There is a big difference between believing someone exists and ‘trusting on’ them. Just because someone declares that they believe in Jesus, it doesn’t mean they are saved and ‘trust on’ him.

    Also like so many false teachers you have left out repentance. Jesus Christ our Saviour said ‘repent and forsake your sins’ along with ‘believe and trust ON me!’

    To forsake your sins you must turn from them and not idley continue in them. To trust ON Jesus you literally live Him each day asking Him to guide you in everything, every day. Once you fully trust on Him it is much easier to forsake your sins.

  142. John says:

    We, as members of Christ’s body, are to judge ourselves, judge the spirits and one day we will judge angels….but nowhere, NOWHERE, are we commissioned to JUDGE EACH OTHER!
    Websites like this one (and unfortunately there are many) are not displaying mere Pharisee-ism.
    This is Inquisition-ism.
    Really bad stuff.
    I stumbled on this site (and I’m going to stumble away and never return) and I’m quite saddened that there are so many who claim to be Christians who seem so fearful and judgmental and puffed up with pride. How can we win over the lost when we spend our time creating and maintaining websites like this?
    Is this silly discussion enlarging the Kingdom in these last days?
    No. It is not.
    You would better serve the Lord by preaching to the lost than trying to run down your brothers in the Lord.
    May the Lord forgive you.

  143. Alan Higgins says:

    “NOWHERE, are we commissioned to JUDGE EACH OTHER!”

    I beg to differ. Check out https://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/judge-not/

  144. Marc Ogier says:

    I have watched God TV with amusement for the last two years, and whilst it makes me laugh, it also increasingly saddens me how part of our society can take a story and belief and twist it into being purely about finance and money.

    I am an Athiest and have been for the 36 years of my life, I am also a full time church organist who attends every Sunday. My wife is a Christian and I have massive respect for her and somedays wish I could find the faith she has, but this lot on God TV should be stopped. They are destroying the meaning of Jesus Christ, poisioning the good reason that Christianity exists, for love, not money. How sad is the world with this sort of falsehood, that people send thousands of dollars to a TV channel to let it continue and leach across the land. Surely the money goes to worthy causes like Africa, the poor and needy? Does it? Does it hell!

  145. james shore says:

    Good overall site enjoyed reading will def bookmark.

  146. I tried a subscription for your rss feed, but had a difficulty adding it to google reader. Could you please look at this webpage.

  147. Alan Higgins says:

    Kerry, I am not sure how to change it from my end. I’ll take a look but I think as I use a wordpress template, it is out of my hands but I’ll look again

  148. gezza mcardle says:

    Todd Bentley is about to be relaunched on an unsuspecting purpose. The infamy of God TV is unending.

  149. gezza mcardle says:

    Above should read: ‘unsuspecting public’.

  150. Graham says:

    Interesting reading all this a few years on, having seen the results, well done for your efforts Alan, I 100 per cent support your comments. I’ve had many of the same discussions and similar experiences over the years, sound teaching from the scripture is needed more and more to rescue the deceived, and promote the true gospel. Please pray for the believers in my city as GodTV is now attempting to bring its nonsense here, misusing the history of the city to excite their deluded but well meaning followers.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s